Creative gun safety... ? ...

Factual Questions
1

A little background:

I grew up in a family of country people, Dad is a life member of the NRA (He joined back in 1977, when it was like, 50 bucks), and we all (including me) had BB guns as kids. I never graduated to my own rifle because I couldn’t stand killing animals. However, I do know how to shoot and learned gun safety because of my upbringing.

Fast-forward to the future, or as we now call it, now:

I am a 30-something single mom of a 12-year-old. My s.o. lives in the same house, and we are country people. There is a gun here, but it’s large caliber and I know it’s too much for me to handle at 5’3" and 125 pounds. I’ve been ruminating on getting a small caliber rifle for critter killing and “home protection”, but with an impulsive-to-the-extreme 12-year-old in the house and possibly another child on the way (plans are underway), I simply can’t ignore the safety aspect. However, what good is a gun in a survival situation, for example, when it’s unloaded, locked in a box with the ammo locked in a separate box?

I have thought many a time how many murder victims would still be alive today if only they’d been packing heat. And, just the number of times there have been suffering animals in need of mercy killing (and predators on the farm, just plain in need of killing) seems to necessitate gun ownership. For me, except for the (substantial and very scary) threat of accidental shooting, I think having a gun would be beneficial.

Are there safety devices I haven’t heard of that enable you to keep a firearm in such a way that it is totally safe from accidental shootings and unauthorized people handling it, yet immediately available in an emergency? Some kind of wall-mounted locking device, perhaps? Or am I just fantasizing?

(BTW, I thought about the locked-and-loaded pistol in the holster idea, but since a certain someone is able to, in microseconds, grab say a filled stick donut from me and suck out the sugary filling before I am even aware of what is happening, I dismissed that idea summarily.)

Any factual answers? Suggestions? Am I in the wrong forum? (Hope not). Thanks!

2

A handgun might serve the needs of critter & crazy protection quite well. If you’re going to go that route, I recommend the model Q13 Qwikcase, about halfway down this page. Very safe, ready for use instantly.

You might also consider a shotgun. There are excellent trigger locks with digital codes for access – again, safe and fast. A nice 20 guage pump should be easy enough to handle.

That said, I’d really recommend not getting a weapon at all. I know the NRA doesn’t agree, but I feel that non-experts (you, and most everyone else) have their own weapons turned against them too often. Also, digital codes and key locks can be defeated, particularly by inquisitive 12-year olds with lots of time and access to the internet. I grew up with weapons in the house, and am lucky to be alive from all my unsupervised playing with them.

I believe gun knowledge and safety is important for everyone to learn, so much so that I think it should be mandatory for 4th graders. But I don’t recommend gun ownership.

Guns never really make you safer.

3

MINI VAULT GV 1000 available at http://www.brownells.com for a pistol. I’d recommend keeping some good ear muff hearing protectors like Peltor Ultimate 10s handy for when you need to take out a varmint.

For a Mossberg pump you’ve got http://mossberg.com/locbox.htm .

The greater chance of having a gun turned on you is anti-gun propaganda BTW. Though the BS support story used by the previous poster in his propaganda piece was quite excellent.

4

Some lateral thinking … I presume the most dangerous critters around your parts would be bears (since pumas are endangered).

Rather than own a gun, a more creative solution is to play dead if confronted by a bear.

Surviving a bear attack in the back country

"Roll, Cover and Ball Up If the bear looks as if it is going into a full confrontation, Drop to the Ground, Roll into a fetal position, Cover your Head Chest and abdomen by rolling yourself into a tight ball. "

5
      • Yea, probably the wrong forum.

But anyway, in no particular order:

  • You say “animals in need of mercy killing”, how big of animals are we talking about here? Because the caliber of the gun will depend on that. There’s a few carbines (rifles that shoot pistol calibers) available that are pretty easy to handle and aren’t real loud.
  • Generally, guns kept for defense purposes should be accessible from your bed. The reasoning is because when it is usually dark, you will be in bed, and if you think that you suddenly need a gun, having to go look around in the dark for it is not something you will want to do. A good flashlight is handy, too.
  • As far as the 12-yr old goes, I don’t have any kids so it’s possible I have no idea what I’m talking about, but I would skip the gun lock entirely–or use a trigger lock but keep the key nearby, and make sure he knows where it is. Let the kid shoot the gun occasionally, and lay down the rule that they are not to touch it the rest of the time. Because if you tell him that he is never allowed to shoot it, then he has no reason not to try to do it when you’re not there–and that is the last thing you’d want.
    ~
6

I’m going to try and avoid being preachy but I have to agree with Danlan as much as that is out of character for me. If you have a situation that compels you to substitute technology for safe gun handling then you have no business with a firearm. That is harsh but you are actually in fear of your child grabbing a holstered gun from you then you are better off not having one.

At any rate I have a gun safety device in my home. It’s a big steel safe that weighs about 700lb empty. A motivated criminal will break in but the overwhelming number of crank lab operators won’t take the time to break in. If one of my guns is not in my hands, in a holster or cased it is in the safe. Children typically will not be skilled enough to break in.

If you feel you must get a gun take a safety course first from a certified instructor. This will teach you the proper mindset for safety. After that you can decide if you should get a gun.

*The four cardinal rules of gun safety

  1. Every gun is loaded
  2. Never allow the muzzle to point near anything you do not wish to destroy
  3. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard until you on target and ready to fire
  4. Know your target and what is beyond
7

I recommend the Ruger Mini 14. It comes in a variety of calibers. For personal protection and large predator defense a revolver would be your best bet. As for the 12 year old, he’s plenty old enough to be taught safe and proper gun handling, and to reinforce the idea that firearms are not playtoys. You have stated that you were raised around firearms, and yet managed to make it to 30 without shooting anyone. Previous posters have provided some good links to quick access safes.

8

12 years old? I agree with BF… a typical 12 year old is old enough to learn gun safety, and old enough to go to the range and be taught how to shoot.

9

Hello everybody, and thanks for your replies! Just so you know, my beloved 12 year old is smart, creative, and fun, but is dealing with a severe LD (somewhere on the autism spectrum - the school/private psychologists haven’t reached a consensus yet) which puts her probably in the 5-7 year old range of decision making/information processing skills. (Outrageous decisions are sometimes made - and it’s often difficult to convince others that my growing, healthy, literate and articulate kid simply can NOT be trusted with ordinary things that other 12 year olds might be capable of dealing with.) It’s entirely possible that my family situation is 100% inappropriate for firearm ownership. I’ve just been mulling over the pros and cons of a small critter shooter for some time. I really appreciate all the input so far, though! Thanks! :slight_smile:

10

Ah, well that is in entirely different scenario, ggurl. I’d definitely go with the tamper proof safe and lot’s of time spent with the little one reinforcing the don’t touch rule unless Mom’s home. Removing the mystery of the tool is key.

11

ggurl, your situation is somewhat similar to a good friend of mine who is also a firearms owner. His youngest son is autistic, impulsive and extremely clever. He actually had to take the step of replacing the inside doorknobs in the house with keyed deadbolts. There is no way to open the door from the inside without the key. Guns are all kept in a locked safe which is itself in a locked room. The thought of them ever having a fire scares the crap out of me but the situation was so bad the son got out one day and was wandering down a busy multi-lane street in Phoenix before they did this.

Aside from a safe or vault with an electronic keypad, which I think are the best solutions, here are a couple of keyed safety devices for handguns you may consider. My only caveat about the Life Jacket device is it allows a gun to be secured while still loaded. IMO just rendering the trigger inoperable does not mean the gun is safe. The fact that you can’t tell if the weapons is loaded or not means it is (see rule one) and must be treated as a holstered and loaded gun should. The GSI device OTOH requires an empty chamber to be locked into a gun. In your situation I thikn a vault that enclosed the entire gun removes a lot of curiosity factor for your son.

I’ll switch to preaching mode now. Get training first. Once you learn about safety and get a little shooting experience under your belt you’ll be closer to knowing what is right for you - which may be no gun at all. I suggest you not take specific suggestions on a certain gun or type from any of us at face value. Just because XXXX works for me doesn’t mean it’s what you should get.

12

At the very least, I suggest getting the Eddie Eagle (NRA) video on gun safety, and then drill, drill, drill. I keep our guns locked up in a gun safe, but I have a variety of toy guns that look real (made back before there were laws about toy guns having safety-orange muzzle caps) and I leave these lying at random times, in random locations, around the house and even in public places like parks when we go. When the kids find them (and they always do) they come charging to me to tell me “Mommy, mommy, I found a gun!” and they take me by the hand and lead me there to “put it away safe”. They get lots of praise, and it’s a great game, with no risk of injury. If they ever found a real gun ditched in the bushes at a park, I believe firmly that my children would do exactly as they’ve been conditioned to do, and find an adult to take care of the gun. But you have to do it consistently, and you have to supervise the first N times of “finding” the gun, and walk the child through the process correctly until she can do it on her own. My kids, by the way, are 6, 4 and 4…and they’re “trained”. I think even a child with delays that made her function in the 5-7 year range of impulse control could be trained to do the same. Personally, I would do this with my children even if I owned no guns, nor ever thought they’d be around them. Because you never know what a kid will find in the bushes at the park, or in the drawer at a friend’s house.

This does not mean I leave real guns, loaded or unloaded, where my children can get them. Only that I have vastly increased the chance that if I did, or someone else did, that they’d be safe.

We will be taking the 6 year old to the gun range one day soon with a .22 and teaching her how to handle a gun safely, and properly - to wear earplugs/earmuffs, to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction at all times, and the pleasure to be had in putting holes in pieces of paper against a safe backdrop. Also, at some point we will take her to an open range and show her what happens to a can of soda, and a melon, when shot…splat. She’s old enough to understand the parallel to a person if similarly shot. She’ll be allowed to go to the gun range and shoot (under appropriate supervision) whenever she wishes. It takes all the mystery and (I hope) fun out of playing with guns.

As for mercy killing of wild animals (such as deer, dogs or cats struck by cars) a .22 rifle held to the temple will likely work. As by the way would the back of a good sized hatchet, or a large hammer, or an axe-handle. For protection against aggressive larger animals, such as perhaps bears, you’d need a much larger caliber. Then I defer to folks who know shotguns, since I’ve never handled one of those. I think the kick would just be something you’d have to live with in such a case.

13

Well, here’s a couple of things that sound like opinions, but I believe they address some of the core points of your question factually.

There are a few things involved in making children safer around guns. Some of these are:

  • Eliminating access - good as long as the child is never near firearms left carelessly about in other situations (friend’s house, etc).

  • De-mystify the gun - children are attracted to guns because of media influence, but also because parents make the mistake of having a gun but making it a “secret”. “Mommy keeps hiding and locking the gun up in that room - there must be something really cool about it! Maybe if I unscrew the doorknob I can see it and play with it…”

  • Teach responsible and safe handling, with rewards for demonstrating consistent safe handling and passing quizzes and trials.

I too do not shoot animals, but have a multitude of guns nonetheless. I think you almost need two weapons - a .22 that you can be instructed in safe use of, and which you and your child can use for recreation at a safe range to get familiar with the cause and effect of firearms - and another weapon for defense. I think a short-barreled (legal) pistol-grip pump 20-gauge would be a good multi-purpose weapon which could be used against moderately large animals, as well as people.

Having a .22 rifle to de-mystify guns, as well as teach that guns HURT, MAIM, and KILL, will do a lot towards reducing curiosity and increasing safety.

Others in here have posted excellent suggestions for storage and safety; I won’t add to their posts.

Don’t believe the shopworn spiel about an attacker taking the weapon away from you and using it on you as you cower under the “majesty of the male” or whatever it’s supposed to be called. Sure, people are cowed into giving over a weapon they could have used to defend themselves - the same way that an abused woman lets the husband back in the house “one last time”, resulting in her beating and death, because he started crying and said he “changed”.

If you are strong, self confident, and can handle yourself, barring a freak accident no one will take your weapon away from you.

14

And please, do not hold their head with your hand if you do this, you’re liable to put a hole through it also. For serious varmints, a good .223 is probably better than a .22, but for large predators (talking hand guns now), you need at least a .357 to get their attention, preferably a .44. For the two-legged kind, with a .357 you can practice with cheaper, lighter .38s, then load your home defense/personal protection gun with .357 hollow points for maximum knockdown power. Of course for a bear, this may mean the whole cylinder, but it beats a .22, which would just really make it mad. :stuck_out_tongue:

15

I’d just like to add that if you are going to use a .357 for HD/PP situations that, while using .38s for a good chunk of practice will save you a good bit of money, it’s best to do extensive practive with the .357 magnum loads as well. You need to be familiar with the gun + ammo combination that you are going to depend on to protect your life. The shot placement, recoil, and return to rest position will all be different with the .357s and the .38s. I usually go to the range once a week (not nearly enough, if you ask me) and fire off a box of 50 .38s followed by half a box of .357s.

16

As I am passing in familiarity with your situation I would suggest a .22 (The largest predators we have to fear are Coyotes and they are exceedingly rare.). I really wouldn’t care to comment on the safety aspect (although I think it’s a bad idea). If you are worried about personal safety then a .38 handgun is probably the best for your situation, again I think it’s a bad idea. If you do, I think the advice offered so far on securing the gun and teaching lil’ ggurl gun safety should be heeded.
However, in your situation a .22 might be a necessity to protect your livelyhood. It’s a difficult situation.
Lil’Ggurl might do well enrolled in a gunsafety program, but I also think this might be dangerous in removing the fear of the gun. Famialiarity may promote a lackadaisical attitude and who knows what she might get up to.

Love and Blessings Ggurl!

17

If you haven’t owned a gun before I suggest starting with a .22 if for no other reason you can afford to practice. You cannot learn to shoot competently and safely with a few boxes of ammo, you should think in terms of thousands of rounds. This is affordable for most people with a .22. It’s not perfect practice for a larger caliber but allows you to become competent enough that you don’t have to think about basic shooting skills but to concentrate on safety and the task at hand.

Safety Rant: Do not for one second think that a .22 is less dangerous than a larger caliber if mishandled.

18

Padeye
I agree with you 100% about the advantages of a .22 rifle. (The Ruger 10-.22 is a well-designed model). The .22 caliber has the advantage of
cheap ammo
minimal recoil
relatively quiet

I also agree with the idea of always regarding a .22 as lethal. As I’ve said in postings before, I wonder how many fatalities have benn caused by someone thinking - “Hey it’s only a .22”

19

GGurl, The safest (although not 100% safe) and fastest “draw” solution to gun safety in your case would seem to be the “personalized gun lock”. It seems to be the most expensive solution as well, unfortunately. The last link seems to be fairly reasonable/affordable. The availability of personalized locks seems to be limited to mostly handguns, though.

The Personalized Gun

Pros and Cons
Smartgun
Just between me and you, Is this need for a gun in anyway motivated by Ohio’s recent concealed carry legalization. Is this an indication of a vicious cycle? Now that anybody could be carrying a gun, you feel less safe? I don’t mean to politicize this, but it is a legitimate reason for paranoia.
“Hell’s kitchen is a DMZ, I ain’t never going back there!” -I. Astbury
You don’t have to go back there either! :wink:

20
      • Well–I admit that the condition of the child makes a big difference here. . . . .
        …
        -but where I am (midwest USA) “predators on a farm” means foxes and coyotes, and a 22LR is really a bit light for them. Most people I know in that situation use a 22WMR, or now there is the 17HMR which shoots flatter and is a bit more accurate, but costs somewhat more for ammo (about $9 for 50 shots, compared to $6). Both of these are rimfires, and they are still easy to shoot. They cost 2-3 times as much for ammo as a 22LR would, but then they have 2.5 to 3 times the power of a 22LR also. You can safely crack any fox or coyote under 100 yards with them. The Remington 597 semiauto rifle is reasonably-priced, it’s a fairly-new design but it has a good reputation for functioning so far, and it’s available in both the above calibers.
        ~