D & D on the Straight Dope setup thread. (In Middle Earth FA63)

Sorry, check the edit.

I think Jim messed up and will be by in a second to fix things.

ETA: See, I told ya!

I am waiting for some more feedback, but I think I can work up all the characters by Monday, maybe by next Friday. Have a little patience and we will soon get started.

I will send out an Email to all with the Penetration chart and the Herbology sheet I use. I will probably include a few other items as I think of them.

It looks like we will be starting in Minas Tirith. I will work out the details of that over the next week.

Please be patient with my small mistakes, (especially spelling).

I’ll be offline most of today. I will get back to everyone tonight or by tomorrow.

Jim

I remember going to an exhibition at Olympia, London in about 1980 when the DM Guide first came out over here. They sold all 400 copies in 20 minutes!

I’m delighted to be a Wose Druid, as the character has clear motivation.

I’m still not quite sure about the proficiencies, because my AD+D 1st Edition PH only has weapon proficiencies.
(Clerics get 2 initially, and one every 3 levels, if I remember correctly.)

I would like to take one (preferably missile) weapon.
I certainly like the sound of the blowpipe, but would using natural poison cause any alignment problem? Perhaps I could stick to paralysing only?
(If I don’t learn a melee weapon, do I attack at a -3 penalty?)

I am happy to be the main healer and so presumably herbology helps with that?
If it does, put me down for advanced herbology. :cool:

Background:

My character’s tribe is still grateful to Aragorn for driving the Uruk-Hai out of Rohan, and giving us land rights.
I have volunteered to go into the World and help repay this kindness.
As I want to preserve the natural beauty of Middle Earth, it made sense to be trained by Radagast, so I can challenge those who would destroy forests.
In a party, I would try to gather information from plants and animals. I would hold back in a fight, looking to heal (and perhaps ‘Summon Insects’).
My ambition is to meet an Ent!

To help out What Exit? in what is, to me, the hardest part of the game, I’m going to group the known PCs by general area:

Rohan
appleciders: Human Wizard from Rohan
OneCentStamp: Rohirrim fighter, maybe a fellow on horseback with spear, sword and, in a pinch, bow
glee: Wose Druid and therefore our primary healer at this point. Trained/Training under Radagast himself (note: training under Radagast might also put him in Mirkwood)

Gondor
Elendil’s Heir: Human fighter (Gondorian) Sailor & probably Horseman and Navigator. Awaiting more info

Erebor / Mirkwood
Malacandra: Elvish Bard (Fighter/Thief to start) Bowyer and swords
NAF1138: Dwarven fighter for Aglarond but born at Erebor and fought at Battle of Dale in the War. Armourer
d_odds: Human Ranger (Dale) Descendant of People that fought at the Battle of Dale. Archer, Tracker and lesser Herbologist

Shire
CatInASuit: Hobbit rogue (a Took Treasure Finder)

For expediency, I might put the Took and Gondorian fighter in Rohan as a diplomatic mission (much the way that Boromir and Gimli ended up in Rivendell). That way, Jim only needs to bring together two seperate groups. Of course, if it were a Brandybuck Treasure Finder, then being in Rohan would be a natural. :slight_smile:

Of course, I may just be speaking out of my arse, and Jim is a much better GM than I ever was, and he already has a plan to bring together the group.

I’m in. I’d already emailed What Exit? my character profile for Thoroncir, age 20, a swordsman, mariner and sea-knight of Gondor now looking for adventure on land. If you need more info, O great GM, just let me know here or via email.

I believe I know LOTR pretty well, but it’s been decades since I played AD&D and I’m pretty rusty on the rules.

*Gil-Gandel * sounds perfectly cromulent, then. Thinking it over, thanks to the film that two-swords idea sounds a little derivative, and I’ll amend that to a single bastard sword. If it’s possible to tailor thief skills at all, I’ll incline towards stealth more, manipulation less - we have a treasure-finder already.

Actually, go with the Long and Short. That is a great choice in my world and is common to Elves. You can specialize in the swords or the bow. I would recommend the bow. As an Elf of Greenwood you will be picking up a +1 to hit with the Long & Short swords and the Elf Bow.

I still need to know if you are going with Sindar or Silven. Sindar will work better for a Bard. Silven are typically the stronger though.

As to the thieving part, it can be handy to have two people to Open Locks and Detect Traps early, but we can sacrifice the Pick Pockets and push more into the Read Magic and moving silently part. The Treasure Finding Hobbit will by nature be better at the Locks & Traps anyway. He will be much worse at the climbing walls. He will also quickly outpace you as you are multiclass and he has the easiest experience chart by far. You already have a racial advantage on the stealth and hearing portions.

glee: The proficiencies are as per the 1st Ed PH. The variant is I start everyone with reasonable secondary skills. In your case, you can sacrifice a weapon to be even better at herbology. Druids, especially Wose Druid are great herbologist.

As to the weapons, blowdart could be used with paralysis poisons or deadly poisons. You are a True Nuetral, your primary allegiance will be to the woods and nature. You are by nature very anti-orc and despise undead to a degree that only Paladins could match, so you work well with good parties, but would probably want to lay to waste perfectly legal developers that wiped out woods.

I have to check the PH, but 2 +1/4lvls sounds like the Proficiencies for Druid. If you take Blowgun or Bow and a special in Herbology, you will be without a melee skill until 4th level. That is not to far away and has a slight advantage. You could be learning it in game.

D_Odds: The Hobbit, the two Rohirrim and the man of Gondor are already in Minas Tirith. The Wose lives close and should not be a problem. I am even considering a pilgramage to visit the “White Tree”.

The Dwarf is not too far, it could be as simple as visiting the big city with Gimli. Simple enough.

Only the two from the North get tricky. I will probably come up with some way for you to travel together to the city. You might be simple messengers. Give me a little time.

Koldanar is going to pass as he has some time limitations. So we either start with 8 or have room for one more.

I have to build an Email list next, is everyone’s Email public? Otherwise please Email me so I have your address.

Jim

Okay. I don’t see where picking pockets would fit into the character conception I’m coming up with, so that can go.

Let’s make him a Sindarin Elf, of the southern portion of Eryn Lasgalen, the “Wood of Green Leaves” as it was renamed at the end of the Third Age. That’s the part that was settled by Celeborn and named “East Lorien”. Gil-Gandel saw service during the War as part of a unit of scouts and raiders, and has turned to minstrelsy during the ensuing peace. In order to advance to the higher ranks of his chosen profession, he has to compose an epic lay or saga based on events he has witnessed or participated in. His ongoing mission is to collect material for this.

OK, my e-mail’s public.

Can anyone (anyone knowledgeable, not necessarily What Exit) explain to me the game mechanics for being a wizard in D&D? I’ve never played before and after reading on the internet about spellbooks, schools of magic, familiars, and god-knows what all, I’m mightily confused.

Hey, that is a good question (and leads to one of my own). What should/where should I look to help get me up to speed on how to actually play this game once we are done making the characters? I seem to be doing fine tracking things down on the net and asking Jim an insane amount of questions for now, but are there some good reliable sources I can use to help me start actually playing?

If Herbology helps at all with healing, I’ll happily delay a melee weapon proficiency until my next proficiency.
I think there are party characters much better at fighting than me!

I appreciate the offer on poison, but think I will stick to paralysing. I revere life and poison just feels wrong.

According to my PH, Druids get 2 proficiencies at 1st level and 1 every 5 levels. I believe this means 6th level before I get another one (I assume you meant 5th level in your example above).

This is the site that I’m getting all confused from.

Oh yeah, that is the one that caused me to PM Jim repeatedly yesterday. It seems to assume you know what you are doing already. Also it seems to have almost nothing in the way of AD&D v.1 rules. Should I track down a player guide or something? Is there an equivalent somewhere on the net for free?

The mechanics have changed with each new edition (and most games have a few local rules).
However my trusty 1979 1st Edition Players Manual sits beside my computer, so here are the basics (What Exit? can tell you about any changes he uses…):

The Magic-User (MU) does not use armour or shields, can absorb less damage than other character classes (and is pretty weak at fighting). :frowning:

However they can memorise a set number of spells (depending on their level) each morning, and use them that day. Many of these are powerful, or of real use to the party. :slight_smile:
Note that the casting can be interrupted by a successful enemy attack, so Magic-Users usually stand behind the mighty Fighters, away from enemy blows.

For example a 3rd level MU can memorise, then cast, two 1st level and one 2nd level spell per day.
If they have a magic device, such as a Wand of Fear, they can use that to cast extra spells (but these devices are rare and expensive!)

They rely on using a wide range of spells, such as:

Magic Missile (1st), Fireball (3rd) (Offensive)
Shield (1st), Stoneskin (4th) (Defensive)
ESP (2nd), Clairvoyance (3rd) (Informational)
Levitate (2nd), Fly (3rd) (Movement)

MUs need a good Intelligence (Int) characteristic to give themselves a better chance of learning each spell they want to use, and to cast higher-level spells.
For example, 14 Int gives a 55% chance to learn a new spell, and allows 7th level spells to be cast. An 18 Int gives 85% and 9th level respectively.

MUs carry their spells in books, and study them each morning. They can carry lots of books, but must choose just a few spells to learn each day.
If they fail to learn a spell (Int roll), they can never memorise it.

The 1st level spell Find Familiar is interesting. Paying 100 gold and spending up to a day casting gives the MU a good chance (75% at 3rd level) to summon a loyal companion / guard / scout.
The vast majority are animals (like a cat or a toad) and the MU can automatically communicate with it. There is a 5% chance that a powerful magical being will turn up. :cool:
The MU gets some extra health, but if the familiar is killed, the MU loses that, plus some extra health - permanently. :eek:
So if you do use this spell, look after your familiar!

And if I’m reading rightly, I can have a given number of spells of given levels prepared and ready to cast at any time, those spells remain prepared and ready to cast indefinitely, and I can’t stockpile loads of spells by studying for days and never casting any.

Also, how on earth can I tell what edition of rules I’m reading online? For example, I don’t see on the site I’m looking at anything about the 5% chance of a powerful magical being showing up and death of a familiar results in a loss of XP, not health. That makes me suspect that I’m reading a different edition. For that matter, I’m given to understand that there’s a difference between straight D&D and AD&D, though it seems like we’re using both terms to mean AD&D and that we’re actually playing 1st edition AD&D. Is there a place online where I can see 1st edition rules, since those seem to be exactly what we’re using? Or are the rule changes minor enough that I shouldn’t worry?

And more specifically to What Exit, being 3rd level, do I start out with spells that I would have learned in leveling up, or do I just have access to what I find in-game?

Primer for AD&D 1st Ed/Jim’s MERP rules:
At 3rd level you have 2 1st and 1 2nd level spell. Additionally you get 3 cantrips + 1 per level. Cantrips are very simple little weak spells like the ability to change to color of your hair for a few hours or cause someone to sneeze (they get a save) etc.

Additionally to add some flexibility spell points may be traded off.
A 1st = 3 cantrips, a 2nd = 1+2 cantrips, a 3rd=2 1st or a 2nd. Trading done yield a number of spell points equal to the level -1. You may also trade up. This required 50% more points than the level. So to get an extra 3rd, you would need 5 spell points. example would be 2 2nds + 1 1st.

Starting spells are those you have in a spell book. You will start the game with several 1st and 2nd level spells. You will then need to learn by trade or reward more spells or may research more spells. I will probably be nice and start you with a random 3rd level spell also.

BTW: Mages get a Read Magic ability of Intelligence2+5%xLevel. (2Int+5*Lvl)

The Find Familiar Spell and the Identify are too very important ones.

I’ll ask, is there a smallish animal you have a strong affinity to? I will probably design your familiar based on that.

Identify is a spell that gives you a chance to identify magic item abilities. Generally you don’t memorize this, but you will have it.

This sounds great. I forgot to ask, what is your chosen instrument?

I don’t know any specific web sites for 1st addition. But I will try to provide a primer over the next weak. I will send out weapon charts, Herb lists and some maps. I will send appleciders details on his spells.

Glee, I am happy you are a 1st Ed player. As a Druid you will have far more spells than the Mage. Do you own Unearthed Arcana? I allow some spells from there.

Herbology is mostly about healing, though in your case it might also be about blow dart additives.
Beginning of the Primer
I roll a random special ability for each character. I have my own chart that I use.
I will determine starting money and base items. Each of you will have at least one magic item of some sort.
I will send out Stats and Hit Points.
I will provide typical height and weight ranges and life expectancies.
You will each have a secondary ability. Most of these are pretty much determined.

Proficiency Table I use:
Class, Starting Weapon Proficiencies, Non Proficiency Weapon use penalty & what level you get your next Proficiency. Note: if 1/3, you get it at 3rd.
Class… | S |Non|Next
Cleric… | 2 | -3 | 1/4|
Druid… | 2 | -4 | 1/5| (1@14th)
Fight… | 4 | -2 | 1/3|
Paladin. | 3 | -2 | 1/3|
Ranger. | 3 | -2 | 1/3|
Wizard. | 1 | -5 | 1/6|
Illusion. | 1 | -5 | 1/6|
Thief… | 2 | -3 | 1/4|
Bard…| * | -2 | 1/5|

**Proficiency groups: **
Xbow: all cross bows
Elf Bow: specific to rapid firing special Elven Bow.
Bows: Short, Long & Composition Bows.
Sword: Long & Short
Blades: Short Sword, Dagger & Parry Blade
2 handed: 2H & Bastard
Axe: Battle, Great & Dwarven
Small Axe: Throw or fight with Hand Axe
Lances: All Lances
Spears: Spears, Javelins & Pikes
Poleaxe: Poleaxe, Halberd, Voulge, Bardiche
Maces: Maces & Morning Star
Flails: Infantry or Horse
Darts: Darts & throwing knives.
Dagger: Throw or Melee

War Shield: Fight with a Dwarven War Shield.

Two weapon Fighting:
Dexterity Reaction plays big in this.

A Dwarf as an example could use Battle Axe and War Shield. He suffers a -1 & -3 to hit reduce by Dex Reaction.

Many Elves use Long & Short Sword or Dual Short Swords. Long & Short needs a high Strength and Dex. Penalties can be as bad as -2/-4 or as little as no penalty.
For Short and Short, Penalties are usually 0/-2.

Some Hobbits like dual knives and a brace of Knives. Assuming a high dex, they have no penalties and also throw a knife, while fighting with the others.

Exceptional Humans will use two weapons, but typically are more prone to Larger Swords.

Bows get two shots per round except the Elven Bow that gets 3.

Strong Bows may be available, but no one will start with one. They add strength bonuses and are therefore a fearsome weapon.

Xbows are slow, with the Heavy only shooting once every two rounds. However there is a compromise for Dwarves. An exceptional well crafted Dwarven Xbow that shoots every round and has nearly the penetration of a heavy.

Dwarves and Knights of Gondor and Rohan typically have the toughest armor. Rangers tend to Chain Mail and hope to get the well made Elven Chain that is strangely enough typically built by Dwarves instead. There is a long story behind this.

More to come…

Based on my diligent but uncomprehending research, I like hawks.

Also, it seems like there’s some character choices to make by specializing, so when you’re picking out my starting spells, I’d like to specialize in Evocation, forgoing Necromancy (I’m no goody two-shoes, but you have to draw the line somewhere) and Abjuration (Magic walls? I got into this for the flash-and-dazzle, not some boring barriers!)

Jim, not unnaturally Gil-Gandel plays the harp - usually a small one like you’ll find here as a great harp is a bit of a pain to carry around, though he enjoys playing one when he gets the chance.

(Looks like Finnish impact on Quenya there - kantele, anyone?)