I feel for you, hon. I also have confidence that things will improve - I myself was in a really black place at one point, but things improved. I found it to be an upward spiral sort of thing - I did okay so I felt okay, I felt okay so I improved, I felt pretty good about that so I did a bit better, etc. etc. Sure, setbacks happen, but I think you’ll pull through.
Skemper
Before I start, let me give you my religious background. I am a devout Episcopalian, and have been for almost all of my life. I have been a Sunday school teacher and change ringer. In the former capacity, I have strongly influenced the lives of at least 2 teenagers who otherwise have been lost for the good. At the moment I am a chalicist, lector, and choir member. I have also been a member of the Diocesan Commission on Racism. A decade ago, I was hospitalized nearly catatonic with clinical depression. A miracle which occurred when my priest came to the hospital and said the eucharist is what pulled me out of it.
I strongly disagree with the implication in your post that Christ is the sole answer. People suffer from mental illnesses for a variety of reasons, including genetic predisposition and abuse. I will not speculate on what’s behind Guinastasia’s – it’s not my place to. Yes, use faith as I have no doubt whatsoever Guinastasia does, but also use any other options available, including drugs and professional therapy.
At the beginning of this year, I found myself in a nasty depression with all my usual lines of support cut off, including my church, for a few days. In pain and anger, I posted to this very Pit for help and support. Not only did I receive it in measure I had not dared to dream of, it led directly to me starting an on-line support group. Yes, I had prayed. Christ in His mercy, not only gave me help but gave me a means to help others. That she posted here does not to me, imply Guinastasia lacks faith. It implies that she is willing to do whatever she has to to find strength and healing and not leave all the heavy lifting to God.
Guinastasia, I do remember how it seemed impossible to find help when I had no health insurance and no job, how it seemed like every free clinic I could find was geared to alcohol and drug addicts to the point where I was close to pouring a bottle of whiskey over myself, going to one, and saying “Now will you help me?” I wish I knew one I could recommend to you. Will you please, instead, accept the hugs, prayers, and support of someone who still wonders how she managed to survive it all?
CJ
Dear {{Guinastasia}}—are you familiar with Dr. Bob’s Psychopharmacology Home Page? It’s at http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/
OCD is one of those conditions that is frequently very responsive to medication, when the right combination/dosages for that person can be found. Someday, we’ll have happy gene labs on a chip and huge comparative databases; you’ll go in, give a drop of blood, and your p-doc will know just what combination of meds are likely to give you good results with few side effects. But for now, as with other medical conditions that require finesse with the dosages, it’s tricky and it’s an art. It usually takes quite a few go-rounds to find a really good fit, and then if a big ugly hairy stress plops down like a fat rabid drooling badger in the ladies’ luncheon salad bowl, things require readjustments. A top psychopharm guy isn’t necessarily the best talk therapist, and vice versa. Dr. Bob’s main site (/tips) is a searchable database of practitioner discussions; shared experiences, successes, and requests for help with difficult cases, and outcome descriptions. There is also Psycho-Babble, a moderated message board for mutual support and education.
Whenever a big life change comes along (good or bad), it often requires an adjustment in treatment, especially meds. More meds, more therapy (if it’s available) If the money isn’t there for therapy, it’s much more doable to scrape up the cost of a single meds visit; maybe on spec, and you’ll pay her once you can work again… If your doc isn’t exactly cutting edge on psychopharmacology, and you’ve put a lot of time into researching the topic, (using credible sources like Dr. Bob’s), you can often say, “Hey Doc, I’ve been reading up on OCD augmentation, and if it’s OK with you, could we maybe try adding a course of X to this Paxil; if that doesn’t work, I could taper off X and maybe we could give Y a whirl. Here’s some print outs; what do you think?” Some doctors would be pleased; some intrigued; some merely annoyed. But it’s usually worth a shot. I’m not saying self-medicate. I’m saying investigate, and be a partner in your healthcare treatment. And whenever you (or anyone else out there) change your medications regimen in any way, do a full cross-check for side-effects with OTC meds and some common foods. Some of those interactions can be just amazing.
Ideally, no-one should have to go to such lengths for optimal treatment. But we live in a sad and somewhat scary health care world now, where doctors are hammered from all ends to cut costs, see more patients in less time; most of them just don’t have the time or energy these days to fool around with delicate, optimal medication dosages, much less research this stuff themselves. It’s too bad, but there it is. The patient who can look out for herself and research her own conditions and evaluate cutting edge treatment with a discerning eye is at an advantage in getting treated so she has many more of the good functional days and less of the non-functional ones. And that’s what it’s about; getting function back. Getting life back.
I find it misleading and cruel, no matter how well-meant, to say things like “Prozac only masks the symptoms”. BAH!, say I. Fooey! I say again. These imbalances in brain chemistry are as solid, physical and REAL as a broken leg, blood poisoning, or diabetes. You don’t “mask” a broken leg by casting it; you’re allowing it to heal. You don’t “mask” blood poisoning by appropriate antibiotics; you heal the patient and save her life. And the most appropriate analogy of all; you don’t “mask” diabetes with insulin; you treat her body’s chemical imbalance by supplying the right amounts of the missing chemicals so her body can function right, she can think clearly, and live a normal life again. Advising people to ignore the effective medical treatments for these physically real illnesses in favor of praying to “clean out the problem” . . . :rolleyes: . . words fail me. I’m reminded of that old joke about the drowning guy who turned away a rowboat, a speedboat, and a helicopter, while he prayed for God to send help. So, he drowns. Up in heaven, he indignantly asks God why didn’t He save him. “What are you talking about?! Of course I answered your prayer! I sent you two boats and a helicopter!!”
I’m not denigrating prayer; it can be pretty helpful sometimes. But when you’re drowning, wave down that helicopter.
I also wanted to add that there is much good information in this thread; iampunha, Bren_Cameron, cjhoworth and dropzone have made some particularly good points.
If you live near a large university research and teaching hospital, you can often get absolutely top-notch care by signing up for one of their psych meds investigations. They will often pay you for it too. It is usually double-blind trials to see if some factor (like staying up all night) affects the working of an established med. So, nothing new and scary. If you are in one of the groups that is getting a placebo, and start doing poorly, they get you off in a hurry and then start real treatment geared just to you (one of the deals of these programs.) I know a couple of people who were dead solid broke, but they got one of the country’s top clinical psychopharm MD’s on their cases this way, and they started feeling better very quickly. The doc saw them at least every week at first; tried them on 4 different drugs in less than a month (the doc had a gut feeling when something wasn’t working, and he’d switch in a hurry), but finally, the right meds and dosages were found, and these people wound up in the best shape they’d been in years.
So maybe something like that is worth looking into, if money is the obstacle. Good luck, and I hope the fears are subsumed by peace and calm.
Oh! Sorry! Yeah, self-medication is far from an optimal solution. Especially with a melange of active alkaloids at indeterminate doses like you get with “natural” meds like pot or St John’s Wort.
gaeila’s “check with your local university” idea is great!
[hijack] How come [Skemper knows your real name and I, who have known you two years, don’t? Is she (he?) stalking you or does she just pay better attention? [further hijack] We can’t forget, either, that Jesus Himself used something besides faith to cure the blind man. (If Daddy Spit is the universal solvent to clean kiddies’ faces then then God Spit (Now With More Dirt!) has to work GREAT for lots of stuff.) God had a reason to give us the brains to make medicines that help people. It is blasphemous to suggest we not use those brains to do good. [/hijacks]
I post on other boards using my first name, that’s all.
Skemper-once again, your ignorance is showing. You “care”? That’s rich! Especially after you and Lydia have it spread around that I’m an unholy, unlady-like unChristian thing.
I’m so sorry I’m not “saved” like you want me to be. You obviously don’t know anything about medications, or you’d know they don’t “mask” anything. :rolleyes: Medications are NOT a cure all. And you stated that you are a chemist-then you probably know abouty serotonin and chemical imbalances and all that. And what makes you think I haven’t prayed? What do you know about my faith? -Nothing-other than some stupid crap about “Pergatory” (pssst! it’s PURGATORY!). I’ve had this all of my life. I also have ADHD. The two are often related. Perhaps through therapy, and medicine, God IS helping me.
Patrick-by stupid fears, I mean ones I realize are irrational, yet I cannot stop them. I know they would never happen. It’s like the person who keeps washing their hands over and over. And don’t you guys DARE STOP IN PHLIP’S THREAD!!! Not unless you like typing without fingernails. 
I don’t know what Skemper’s deal is. She’s been sending e-mails to various people saying I’m a heathen and simple-minded. Whatever.
I’ll be okay, guys. Honestly. I just have to take it one day at a time. See, I get these episodes every once in a while-but the good news is that as I go, they’re getting fewer and far between. Now I have to go and get ready for work before my curling iron starts smoking!
{{{everyone}}}
Skemper-someday you’ll realize that God is much much more than you realize. You’ll see he’s much more open, understanding and loving, and that there are no easy answers. You’ll also find that not everything can be wrapped up neatly in some little passage from the Bible. God is not confined to one book, or one person. God is everywhere and everything. While you are “praying” for me, I’ll be praying for you-that you overcome your ignorance and narrow-minded prejudices and become a more open, understanding and wise person.
Heathen, Catholic. Same thing.
[sub]Doncha, every once in a while, get a little pang of desire for the Good Ol’ Days when you could burn the Skempers in your life at the stake?[/sub] :eek:
I had long suspected a relationship between OCD and ADHD. I knew about the one between OCD and plain ol’ clinical depression.
You know, for someone like Guin, this might not be the best idea. However,
sounds like it might just do the trick. I’d just be worried that whatever doctors there wouldn’t be top-notch and such, because when it comes to medication you can really, REALLY fuck someone up fierce.
Now that I see the sort of person skemper is from GUin’s post … my patience wears thin, person-like character. If you really want to help her, skemper, then DON’T “sending[sic] e-mails to various people saying I’m a heathen”. DON’T “have it spread around that I’m an unholy, unlady-like unChristian thing.” Not because Guin cares that much if someone thinks she’s this heathen, great unwashed morass of sin (speaking of which, can I get in that sin?;)). Because having to DEAL with that shit doesn’t make A.N.Y.T.H.I.N.G. easier for her. And right now what we want is the exact opposite of what you’re doing.
You want to pray for her troubles? Maybe start with the problems of someone deliberately making someone’s life harder. You remind me of the sort of “Christian” who says “I’ll pray for you” as though it’s a fucking insult.
How about doing her and the rest of us problem-maskers (i.e. those of us who are on medication for whatever) a favor and GOING AWAY!
[sub]I usually don’t get worked up like this about something like this (where the poster in question has sid very little here), but it seems pretty evident that there’s other stuff going on elsewhere that is less than helpful, and not intended as such, either.[/sub]
Well, I went back to work-and didn’t make it. Had to take off indefinitely.
I’m definitely calling my doctor tomorrow. Right now, I don’t want to talk about it, though.
Can’t think about it.
Not that this is my business, Guin, but … call tonight. You’ll probably have to leave a message, but call tonight. This is important, as are you.
::runs naked through thread::
[sub]Hey, everyone can use a diversion now and again…[/sub]
I’ve been re-reading this thread and am only sorry that I don’t seem to have any helpful advice for you, Guinastasia. However, I would like to second what iampunha said… CALL THE DOCTOR TONIGHT! Yes, even if you have to leave a message on their answering machine. If you’re like me, you will find an excuse not to do it when tomorrow rolls around. (note: I’m not saying that you DO engage in that sort of behavior, but that I do at times, and you could, too… who knows?)
Call the doctor while you’re still motivated to, and while you still remember! I’m not saying you’ll forget to, necessarily, but call before you can change your mind about this! I only say this because I’ve managed to talk myself out of doing so many things that might have been beneficial for me, and I regret it sometimes!
So here is a to-do list for you, Guin:
GUINASTASIA’S TO-DO LIST:
[ul]
[li]call the doctor[/li][li]call the doctor[/li][li]call the doctor[/li][li]call the doctor[/li][li]whatever else you need to do[/li][li]etc., etc., etc.[/li][/ul]
Let us know how it goes!
Oh, and one other thing:
{{{{Guinastasia}}}}
Indeed. With friends like her, etc., etc. For anyone interested in Skemper’s true colours, see her posts in The Racist is back to defend himself. Truly despicable.
Guin, sorry to hear you’re having a rough go of it. I have a buddy who suffered from paranoid anxiety attacks with increasing frequency a couple of years ago. It got so that he was missing work and turning to booze more and more just to be able to face the day. Definitely not a good situation. For the past year he’s been on Paxil and is functioning very well now. From your posts you seem to be a sweet, caring, intelligent person. I also think you have a stubborn streak a mile wide that will surely help see you through.
AS much as I want to do it tonight, I have to wait until morning-simply because I can’t FIND the number, and with everyone else in the house asleep, I don’t want to go rummaging through old phone books and calling and waking everyone up (the phone books are in my parents’ room)
Trust me-I WILL do it first thing tomorrow-you can count on that.
. Guinastasia, I join the others in telling you to call your Doctor. Get Help ! But still consider the reccommendations in my last post.
Now, as for calling her a heathen in emails to others, that I have never done. I have called very few people heathens in my life. It is a word that I rarely use. Question for Guinastsia: How would you have known what I have written in my emails?
As for her lacking fatih, I do not know. I wrote her assuming that she was already a Christian. If I did not think that she was, I would have told her to accept Christ first., because what I said would have been useless to a non-Christian.
I am not doubting the problem is complex. Overcoming problems like this is done a layer at a time, as in peeling an onion. Guinastasia, have you talked to your Priest? Or sought out a Christian counselor?
As for the drugs, I am not the only poster here who is against them. But it probaly would not be a good idea to go cold turkey, but rather get off them gradually. I have never been on them but other women whi were have told me that these antidepressants did do things to their minds and they were better off without them and they did eventually get over their depression, but they still had to avoid situaltions and people ( please, no snide remarks) that could trigger them off.
God Bless,
SandyPerhaps because some of the people forwarded these e-mails to me?
Hmmmm?
:rolleyes:
What on earth does having a Christian counselor have to do with it? I don’t ask my psychiatrist his religion-it’s none of my business. As far as talking to my priest-it’s none of his business, either. This is not a crisis of faith, honeybunches.
Medication-you’re against them? Well, would you tell a diabetic to stop taking her insulin? Anti-depressants are NOT a mask, okay?
As for being better off without them-tell that to Andrea and Russell Yates!
Useless to a non-Christian? For the love of…sigh
I don’t think YOU understand just how much you have offended people here with your racist remarks in JanL’s thread. And yes, I said Racist. You said that blacks were inferior-mostly Africans were morally and religiously inferior, and you also stated at Jan’s site that blacks were genetically less intelligent-lower IQs and that whites are the ones who excel. In an e-mail to me, you pretty much insinuated that Dr. Brett was supporting communists in Central America (that the liberation theologians were nothing more than Marxists).
What do you want us to say?
I am praying for you-I’m praying that you someday are cured of your ignorance. IGNORANCE, Sandy is, in my mind, the root of all evil. Ignorance, combined with greed and selfishness. Ignorance is the reason communism was able to gain a foothold in so many countries-ignorance and extreme poverty. Again, some of the stuff Dr. Brett described from what he saw in Central America made me weep.
And yeah, people swear around here. OH WELL. I’d rather have people around here who swear than people like Lydia and Jan who act like two-faced Pharisees and make cheap shots about my meds. (Which, to YOUR credit, you haven’t done.)
For your own sake, I’d suggest you either take some time, lurk a bit and maybe try to learn some things from the people here. If you don’t want to learn from us, I’d say it’s best if you leave.
We’re here to fight ignorance.
At any rate, to the rest of you peeps-thanks. I love you guys. Really, I do. I’ll be okay-I’ve been through this before-and I’ve been much much worse. And I got through it, and I will get through it. I have my family, my cats, my computer, my books, my sewing and plenty of yummy snacks in the kitchen.
And of course, my MPSIMS suitors.
[sub]You realize, of course that, as one of your MPSIMS suitors, it is my duty to continue to nag you until you see the doctor or, at least, swear up and down that you did. I’ll expect you to fax your receipt.[/sub]
Skemper, Guin’s not a Christian. She’s a Catholic. (sorry, I just had to say that)
As for “Christian counselors,” I’m a firm believer in Jewish shrinks, though in the area where I went to counseling one would be hard pressed to find one who wasn’t.
That would be to stop doing something that has been helping her and do something that, it seems, would be almost completely useless, right?
Pardon me if I don’t see how this would help Guin.
No, fuck that. How about you realize the following:
It worked for you. Fabulous. Having met Guin, and having known her for a good bit of time, I’m pretty sure that if she wanted to put on a blouse, the way to do it would NOT be to take all the buttons off and wait for God to magically put them back on. Call me a cynical atheist (which, by the way, I’m pretty sure I;m not), but doesn’t the Lord help those who help themselves? Seems to me that Guin getting off her current meds would be doing a whole lot of bad.
Well, hmm. We have, on the one hand, someone with no track record and who doesn’t otherwise seem to have all her marbles in one basket. We have, on the other hand, Guin. Who, God, WHO DO WE BELIEVE?
I’m glad there are at least a few easy decisions in life.
Good GOD, woman, Christ is not a fix-all! Did you perhaps ignore my earlier post? My father’s a fucking MONK! Y’don’t GET MUCH CLOSER TO GOD! Yet there he still is with his fucking BUCKET of medicine! [aside: You think I’m joking about that? I’ll take a digital picture and put it on my fucking webpage. Don’t think I won’t.] Turning to God is not going to magically fix every problem Guin has.
So they still had to avoid situations and people that could trigger those problems.
Littled factoid for you: psychosis was triggered by anything at all. LIFE triggered it. I suspect that Guin’s phobias and such are triggered, to some extent, by the same thing. As such, Guin would have to avoid life in order to function “normally”.
I hope I don’t have to explain to you that this falls ||just short of inadequate.
Do you just not get it? Something worked for you. Grand. But you’re suggesting that Guin stop doing something that IS working for her, and start doing something for which there is absolutely no guarantee or idea that anything positive will occur at all.
::runs naked through phone book::
Guin:
Please see a doctor. I don’t know how you and Prozac mix, but it is now available in a generic for about $20 for a month’s supply at the Costco pharmacy. Fluoxetine (generic name) is sometimes used for depression and for ocd. See your doctor, please.
Dan
Patrick-you’re supposed to WALK your FINGERS through the Yellow Pages…
(calling the doctor today, peeps!)
Looks like you’re already taking care of this, but thought I’d relate this in case others are in the same boat. My wife has depression and panic attacks and for a long time we didn’t have insurance that would cover mental health. Fortunately, she’d had the same GP for quite some time and that doctor wrote out the prescription for antidepressants. It took a couple of tries, but she found one that works for her.
Those panic attacks are a killer, I’ve seen her go through them and there is just absolutely nothing rational about them. They come on quick for no reason at all and nothing anyone does or says can help them. Damn faulty brain chemistry. If you cannot see a Mental doc, perhaps the GP route would work out for you.