Danalan, leave the children alone!

The BBQ Pit
41

Let me put it from her perspective. Her girlfriend says ‘come on over, some friends of my dads will give you a ride, this is what their truck looks like’. You go to the place, some guy calls out your name and gestures you to the truck.

You get in. They get in. You now realize that you have to drape your legs around the gear shift, which one of the two will be grabbing at. You smell the beer. You realize that you’re in a truck with two men who are quite a bit older than you, and you don’t know them.

You reassure yourself ‘after all, these are friends of Mr. so and so’s, he wouldn’t put me in a position where I wasn’t safe’.

they drive on. you catch one of them eyeing you. You pretend to not notice. Then, the driver says “spread 'em babe” and reaches between your legs. It’s at this point that you realize that they can see up your skirt.

You realize it 'cause they’re making comments about it.

“hello”???

“Hello Kitty”

they laugh.

and you’re stuck.

You can’t leave.

and you’re 16. All you wanted was a ride to see your friend.

42

Danalan lives in the Puget Sound area, and I’ve met him at more than one Dopefest.

From what I know of him, I don’t automatically put him in the “creepy pedophile” category as a result of his post. It seems much more likely to me that the reality of the situation never occurred to him - that his behavior could actually be damaging to the young woman involved. He’s a nice guy, emphasis on nice. Not the salesman / creepy / slick kind of nice, either.

Don’t get me wrong, I think his actions were wildly inappropriate. I also know, through personal and professional experience, that you can’t tell a pedophile/sexual offender/potential rapist just by looking. Many do seem nice.

However, I think that this issue has gotten very polarized very quickly. What’s happening in the pit right now is ugly. Danalan did a wrong thing. I personally have no room for doubt about that. But, it is possible that he did it out of ignorance rather than malice or as a sexual power game.

I suspect that the reason we haven’t heard back from him yet today is that he’s horrified at how his actions have been perceived; and is wrestling with the fact that a whole bunch of people here now think of him as one of the worst things in society - an active pedophile.

I understand how this issue raises a lot of passions very quickly, especially for women who have a history of sexual abuse either as children or as adults. But as a woman who has had both of those experiences, I also think it is also important to not tar every male with the brush of the evil men who do such things on purpose.

If Danalan did just make a mistake (a HUGE mistake), then there needs to be room for him to hear that, admit that it was a bad mistake, and do something productive about it.

Personally I’d like to see him have a talk with his friend about how what they did was not ok and why. Objectifying women as sexual “things” isn’t acceptable behavior regardless of the age of the woman. It’s worse when the woman in question is 16 years old and has not reached legal or developmental maturity (having boobs doesn’t count as reaching developmental maturity).

I have mixed feelings about apologizing to the young woman. If this really was a disturbing experience for her, then more interaction with Danalan and his friend could make her feel even worse. But if this is a person he’ll be seeing a lot of, then maybe it would be better to let her know that he and his friend were out of line and it won’t happen again. Depends on the situation and the people, and none of us are there.

If, as I suspect, this is turning into a big emotional issue for Danalan, then it would probably be good for him to find someone to discuss it with and come up with a resolution for himself as well. It’s not fun to be called a pedophile, whether you are one or not.

43

I post this with more trepidation than any other post I’ve ever made at the SDMB, but I feel it must be said.

Just for the record, let’s not assume that every sixteen year old girl in the world is a perfect, naive, fragile virginal angel.

When I was sixteen I had a teacher that I had a crush on that I would PURPOSELY flash my panties at, and sometimes not wear panties at all to see if he noticed. I sent notes to my psychology teacher that I wanted to have sex with him. I loved older guys. I had a voice teacher that would stand at the front of the room and I would stare at his crotch to see if he would blush. I had a huge crush on my father’s co-worker who was about thirty eight, and I would do ANYTHING to try and get him to flirt with me. I would push him to the point where he would tell me it was making him uncomfortable. It made me feel sexy.

I realize now it was stupid and dangerous, and one night in my life I really really paid a horrible price for it, but I’m not going to lie and say that it wasn’t real fun at the time.

So, yes, this was a creepy incident, and yes, it sounds like she was embarrassed, and yes, every girl/woman/child is different, and yes, I was raped for the things I did and the actions I took.

But please, for the love of GOD, don’t try to paint the picture that every teen gal is living in Pleasantville, desperately trying to avoid the sexual advances of men.

44

Danalan lives in the Puget Sound area, and I’ve met him at more than one Dopefest.

From what I know of him, I don’t automatically put him in the “creepy pedophile” category as a result of his post. It seems much more likely to me that the reality of the situation never occurred to him - that his behavior could actually be damaging to the young woman involved. He’s a nice guy, emphasis on nice. Not the salesman / creepy / slick kind of nice, either.

Don’t get me wrong, I think his actions were wildly inappropriate. I also know, through personal and professional experience, that you can’t tell a pedophile/sexual offender/potential rapist just by looking. Many do seem nice.

However, I think that this issue has gotten very polarized very quickly. What’s happening here is ugly. Danalan did a wrong thing. I personally have no room for doubt about that. But, it is possible that he did it out of ignorance rather than malice or as a sexual power game.

I suspect that the reason we haven’t heard back from him yet today is that he’s horrified at how his actions have been perceived; and is wrestling with the fact that a whole bunch of people here now think of him as one of the worst things in society - an active pedophile.

I understand how this issue raises a lot of passions very quickly, especially for women who have a history of sexual abuse either as children or as adults. But as a woman who has had both of those experiences, I also think it is also important to not tar every male with the brush of the evil men who do such things on purpose.

If Danalan did just make a mistake (a HUGE mistake), then there needs to be room for him to hear that, admit that it was a bad mistake, and do something productive about it.

Personally I’d like to see him have a talk with his friend about how what they did was not ok and why. Objectifying women as sexual “things” isn’t acceptable behavior regardless of the age of the woman. It’s worse when the woman in question is 16 years old and has not reached legal or developmental maturity (having boobs doesn’t count as reaching developmental maturity).

I have mixed feelings about apologizing to the young woman. If this really was a disturbing experience for her, then more interaction with Danalan and his friend could make her feel even worse. But if this is a person he’ll be seeing a lot of, then maybe it would be better to let her know that he and his friend were out of line and it won’t happen again. Depends on the situation and the people, and none of us are there.

If, as I suspect, this is turning into a big emotional issue for Danalan, then it would probably be good for him to find someone to discuss it with and come up with a resolution for himself as well. It’s not fun to be called a pedophile, whether you are one or not.

45

Extremely poor taste and nothing to brag about.

If your experiences to date haven’t led you to have more consideration for a youth, maybe someday fatherhood will.

I’d like to think I treat every youngster the same way as I’d like mine treated, regardless of some legal date after which they’re considered an adult. They don’t sprout or shed feelings on that day 16th or 18th birthday. They’re always a human bean first and foremost.

46

Extremely poor taste and nothing to brag about.

If your experiences to date haven’t led you to have more consideration for a youth, maybe someday fatherhood will.

I’d like to think I treat every youngster the same way as I’d like mine treated, regardless of some legal date after which they’re considered an adult. They don’t sprout or shed feelings on that 16th or 18th birthday. They’re always a human bean first and foremost.

47

DAMN, sorry for the double post.

48

I’ve not called him a pedophile, and I think it’s clear from his description that the young girl involved wasn’t trying to get their attention.

I don’t harbor feelings that every male is a potential rapist or that every young female is innocent and virginal.

and it was still creepy what he did.

49

I want to know who’s gonna clean up my vomit??

50

I would have been icked out beyond belief, in frigging tears.

I would have told my friend, and her mother-and asked her mother to speak with friend’s father.

I’m pretty sure Bob wouldn’t want them around Kate now, either.

I even missed the part where they were drinking beer while driving. REAL cute.

My guess is Helen was babbling along out of nerves. And the idea that he wanted to make her less nervous, NOT so she would be comfortable, but so she would be “distracted” sounds pretty damn skeevy.

Like I said, I’m with Pete’s mother-in-law.

I don’t know where Helen is today, but I’m really going to be feeling for the poor girl. I mean, I can imagine she’s plenty creepd by this.

You guys probably made her feel really ashamed, too. When it’s YOU who should be ashamed.

(And no, I don’t think he’s a pedophile-but I think he’s a creep)

51

Guin they weren’t drinking while driving, just before and planned to be afterward.

52

“However, I think that this issue has gotten very polarized very quickly. What’s happening here is ugly. Danalan did a wrong thing. I personally have no room for doubt about that. But, it is possible that he did it out of ignorance rather than malice or as a sexual power game.”

But he posted about it…made a THREAD for it…and it certainly looked as though he was having a big giggle out of it and doin g a bit of bragging from THIS end of the CRT.

It’s not like this happened and we all witnessed it and drew our own conclusions. He participated and then salaciously posted about it. I think that removes the whole “he didn’t know what he was doing” angle.

53

You’re forgetting the most important part of the story. She asked him to buy her a cherry sucker and she was sitting there between the two of them sucking and licking on it. Sucking and licking on a cherry sucker in a tank top with her bra straps showing and a short skirt that hiked up when told to “spread those legs, babe” and showed her hello, kitty undies.

Gosh, she was practically just asking for it, wasn’t she?!?

:rolleyes:

54

Which is why I should be less terse next time. From me, “Not Impressed” is a serious social comdemnation. But, then, I gave you no way of knowing that. I’ll be a bit more detailed next time.

55

Jarbabyj, I was sexually active when I was 16 and I was an attractive young girl who liked to wear short skirts and had a passing idea of what the effect of my body/looks had on members of the opposite sex. Although I don’t think it really occured to me to think of men the age of my father to have any sexual thoughts about me. Call it naivete but really, I didn’t.

I think we are talking about something entirely different here than your story, though. I don’t think this girl was trying to arouse salacious thoughts in these men. I don’t think she was flirting with them. I think she was looking for a ride to see her friend and that was all.

56

Illegal? no.

Slimy creepy and disgusting? Oh yeah. I know I wouldn’t want to be treated that way, by two men twice my age, whom I don’t know, crammed into the front of their pickup. I hope she tells her parents. You can be sure she’ll never get into a vehicle with either of the two ever again.

57

Hamadryad, I’m willing to believe that it was mostly ignorance through the OP. Doing what he described was wrong, posting in a boastful was stupid and insensitive.

Until the OP, he may not have realized that it was a mistake, although he should have. He has now been informed otherwise, by myself and many others.

I’d like to make something clear. I’m not defending Danalan’s behavior, and I don’t see myself as his spokesperson in this thread or any other. Based on my personal experience with him, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being. That’s all.

I’m also not directing this post at Hamadryad specifically, just responding to her comment in my first paragraph. Although this is the pit and personal attacks are part of the program, that’s not something I’m interested in getting into.

Having said all of that, I’d really like to see Danalan come back and respond to what’s being said here. I think now would be a great time for more information.

58

I think what is illiciting such a visceral reaction is not even the story itself, but the tone and the very fact that Danalan chose to publicly post about it. Most people realize that sometimes sexual feelings are not always appropriate and it’s not possible to curtail attraction to legal age boundaries. Yet, most people also realize that when such feelings are inappropriate, they are not suitable for sharing and bragging, particularly with the individual they are felt about, and particularly when said individual is a young girl who is alone with two adult men, and particularly when said girl was obviously embarassed and yet was ribbed about it.

The gist of all this is not that Danalan is some horrible evil guy because he was attracted to a 16 year old, but that he was selfish and boorish by his behavior subsequent to this attraction. Negative responses, within reason, to encourage Danalan to ceast and desist from such behavior in the future are entirely understandable.

59

Even if I assume she was flirting shamelessly, which is possible (many 16 year olds are experimenting with new sexual influences and trying to see what kind of “power” they have over men of any age), it is up to the adult in the situation to put a stop to any inappropriate flirtation. I’m not naiive, I know what it’s like to be young and have men look at you and feel powerful and sexy, but I also know, as an adult, that men should not indulge this or use it to get a cheap thrill off a 16 year old.

For future reference, Danalan , the appropriate response in this situation would have been to offer her the outside seat, or if you didn’t notice the predicament until after you were on the road, to tell her to sit to the side and keep her legs together. I have ridden in trucks like this, in the middle, and it is possible to ride without straddling the stick shift. Commenting on her underwear and laughing is just wrong . If she is acting inappropriately sexually towards you, just try to let her know she has crossed a line, and be mature enough not to go there with your friend’s daughter.

Excuse me, I have to go scrub my brain Ick.

60

I know my situation was different trishdish, I’m just reacting to the posts here and in the other thread that said she (I think gobear said:) ‘probably went home and cried her heart out’, or she was terrified, or horrified, or that she was most certainly uncomfortable.

We don’t know that for a FACT, is all I’m saying. If I had been in that situation when I was sixteen I’d have been very intrigued if not aroused as I have always been turned on an flirtatious with older men.

That was my point. That SAID, Danalan DID give off an ick vibe in telling the story in such a penthouse forum way. I was just voicing something from the otherside of the fence.

J