I kind of feel a need to point this out. While it doesn’t really bother me as being of Mexican heritage, there are quite a few people that find this really offensive: calling non-Spanish Hispanics “Spanish”. Doing so in the context of knowing that they are not Spanish is on par with using the word “colored”. It’s not the the Spanish are bad, but it seems to have air of ‘whatever’ to it.
My 2 cents and all, seeing as this is a thread on racism.
I think the term “Spanish” is probably very specific to the Eastern Coast, and time-gone-by linguistically as controversial as “Negro”. Hell, Even “Boricua” were known as “Spanish”, once upon time and place. It’s just time eating away at the same stereotypes. None of the words are demolished, they are simply translated and twisted to newer shinier words. .
When a bunch of people are sitting around telling and laughing at jokes that turn on clearly racist notions, yes, I call those racist jokes. I understand that teller and audience may not be committed bigots (like, say, Ariovistus and friends)–but I do find it a little suspicious when they go to some lengths to deny that there’s any racism involved, that we’re all engaged in a big meta game making fun of the real racists. Especially when it emerges that, in fact, committed bigots are laughing too. There are some approving mentions of Tosh on the “chimpout” site, including a link to the same “Is it racist?” routine linked here, and the endorsement,
How much does that “irony” really matter when, in some cases, exactly the same material works for genuine, self-identified nigger-haters?
I don’t see how a routine for which a shared knowledge of racist stereotypes is a prerequisite for the humor can be construed as anything but racist. “Ironic” or not, if the joke is based on perceived differences between “races,” it’s a racist joke, just as a joke which relies on an understanding that men are stupid or women are crazy is, by definition, a sexist joke.
Let me be clear: I’m not nagging anyone about the acceptability of their humor. I’ve laughed at Tosh, and Chris Rock, a time or two myself.
But I think repeating notions about ingrained differences between groups of different skin color range–humorously or not–is maintenance of separations between “races,” not bridging. Yes, black people and white people and Asians may be laughing in the same nightclub (although I notice there are few truly mixed audiences; IME most of these comedians address crowds primarily the same color as themselves, with a sprinkling of others)–but they leave with a reinforced consciousness of themselves and each other as defined in those terms.
You’ve got a faulty premise there - I don’t think a “shared knowledge of racist stereotypes” is a requirement at all. Laughter is nervous release, and so any subject that there is natural tension about is generally going to be a good vein to mine for laughs.
There is a huge difference between this routine and humour that is actually racist. (eg; “Why do [Y]?” jokes, where [Z] references a derogatory ethnic stereotype.) This routine invites the audience to look a clip of a giant douchebag, dares them not to laugh, and further asks us to speculate “Is it racist?” to laugh at this particular specimen of Nimbus Giganticus. The rational answer to this question is “No,” because the demonstrated behaviour clearly demands ridicule, and would be no less funny if the specimen was a member of that closely-related subspecies known vernacularly as an Oompa Loompa of the Jersey Shore. The response video mocks the original’s deficiencies in taste, class, and intellect and does not depend on or refer to race at all.
Is the young man’s ostentatious display a fair target for ridicule? If not, why not? Does race really enter into what makes it ludicrous?
The first video in that routine is ludicrous, sure. Most Westerners of any color would find it so. But the joke is not just “look at this douchebag”–Tosh wouldn’t have a routine or a show if that’s all he did. The joke, such as it is, is the whole presentation, both videos plus the title. The title, and Tosh’s own regular-white-guy persona, frame the second video, even before it begins, as being not merely normality contrasted with ludicrousness, but normal whiteness contrasted with ludicrous blackness. It makes the guy in the first video a symbol for black people, not for douchebags–no wonder it got a notice from the chimpout crew. A non-black person in the first video couldn’t have been mocked in the same exact way (and wouldn’t have been the basis for a Tosh routine) because they wouldn’t be playing so perfectly into some of the most ludicrous stereotypes of their ethnicity. A similar thing could have been done for Italian-American “guidos” or any other identifiable group, but the particulars would be very different.
The occasional racist joke on Tosh 2.0 surprised me, but when I watched his stand up, I suddenly “got” it. It’s part of his persona. He’s much like a postmodern George Carlin, IMHO, hidden in the body of a frat boy. The biggest joke is that eventually, even the most liberal open-minded person is going to find their discomfort zone within his routine. His intent is to push and push and push, until finally those smug smarmy bastards who were laughing easily at the beginning are suddenly shocked into silence and realize that they, too, have hang-ups.
I think it works better in his stand up than on the show, but again, it’s part of who he is and his schtick as a comic, to drive “open-minded” people into finding those subjects where they’re no longer willing to open their minds. Just like Carlin.
I had a minor epiphany today about why guys like Tosh and Rickles can tell racist jokes and “get away with it.” Consider a roller coaster. We get in the coaster and it sends us through 3-5 minutes of sheer gut-dropping terror as we go through free-falls and loops. Our bodies are telling us we’re in mortal peril, but we’re laughing and screaming in fun, not terror, and we don’t sue the ride manufacturer later. Same with horror movies. We love to get ourselves good and scared, both physically and mentally.
Why are these okay? Fear is a bad thing, why do we subject ourselves to it and enjoy it? Because it’s “safe”. We know the killer in the movie isn’t real and we know the roller coaster isn’t going to drive us into the ground or throw us out of our seats. Similarly, we’re okay with hearing racist material from comedians who come across as “safe,” who we can tell aren’t the real thing, so it’s okay to experience a negative feeling (discomfort, in this case, or even actually an us/them dichotomy) and still laugh about it.
As soon as that feeling of safety goes away – the roller coaster breaks mid-ride, the horror movie turns out to be a real recording, the comedian really does seem to be racist – the enjoyment goes away completely.
It’s comedy! I think one should be allowed to cross any line regardless of its vulgarity in order to preserve our G-d given right to laugh at whatever makes us laugh. Its comedy, not the state of the union. It doesn’t have even a remote direct affect on ur life like say, a serious political speech. And its not one for all, not everyone enjoys the same type of comedy, and not everyone will laugh at an awesome joke! but once u start editing and limiting what one can say, ya open the floodgates to censor anything that every average joe gets upset about. And sure powerful groups do get their way sometimes and do get things censored… I’m mainly talking about powerful religious groups say for example christian/catholic reps, but f**& em, they’re prob all upset cause their *&^$'s to small, or Johnny’s got a nasty drug habit cause u were to hard on him as a child, or ur wife is committing adultery. Anyone of these reasons is most likely a result of no laughter in your household! and regardless let those stress-heads darwinate themselves. comedy and laughter is one of the best things we got and acouple of sour ppl in the room is def worth its preservation. And Tosh def goes around the room if ya know what i mean…Ya just cant processes it like that. Remember…the best jokes are about the most serious topics. Have a good day. 
He somehow makes the joke about racism, and not a racist remark about a person (see also Dave Chappelle). He manages to poke fun at himself constantly, and self deprecating humor turns insults into jokes (see also Joan Rivers).
P.s. He does hide behind a comic curtain so to speak when it comes to racism. But I don’t believe he’s a racist beyond a joke or two, he just knows how to make ppl laugh. Racism is still sadly a part of our culture. Won’t deny it, but joking about it, I think is putting it in a form where we all can accept it, black n white, and just like a recovering addict will tell you ( which is up there with the hardest of hard diseases to overcome because 99% is pure mental willpower v. pleasure seeking bodily urges) in order to beat it, u must accept it, learn coping skills, and its a lifelong battle, only thru time do u get better at dealing. Bigotry has been going on for how long, hundreds of years, and its going to take at least that for it to go away. We’re still in step 1, accepting, coping, and learning… Joking about it is a way to do that. D@mn, I mean we still haven’t got rid of the bigot virus’s that live and teach their children their ways yet. And those people hurt all of us by bringing violence into a peaceful democracy. Im just gunna ramble forever so… I’m new to the blogg, what up.
Heh, I’d forgotten about this thread. I guess that minor epiphany wasn’t all that interesting.
I haven’t seen any evidence of that.
Tosh has a huge following in the black community so I think that helps give him a bit of a “Get out of Racism for Free” card.
I see great things from you.
Coincidentally, the new season of Tosh.0 starts tomorrow night.
It comes across more as meta racist or mock racist to me. I think the “is it racist?” segment kind of clinches it. He’s making fun of racism - really as just a sub genre of making fun of distastefulness in general.
And he’s an equal opportunity offender. There’s plenty of white people jokes and lots of self deprecation.
If anything, his racial humor comes across as very light hearted, but some of his gender based humor seems a little mean spirited, and uneven. A better thread might be - is Tosh misogynist?
AA chick aged 54.
I find Tosh hilarious. Some of his stuff is difficult to watch, but I think he’s a very smart comic and I’ll tune in again.
Exactly. Do you think the reaction he is going for is “haha black people taste like chicken because they eat so much fried chicken!” or “haha some people really do think like that”?
Other than lots of people in this thread saying he makes them laugh. Are you really just hanging around this thread so you can make a couple “durr hurr, he’s not funny” comments?
When this thread was first active, 16 months ago, I posted the same thing because the main defense of his racial tinged humor is that he’s funny. My point is that it’s not a very good defense as his humor is puerile and, frankly, pretty stupid.