Danielinthewolvesden - You're doing it yet again...

[Satan]

In the Why are all Pagan’s and Witches looked at as evil? thread, Danielinthewolvesden made the following post:

Well, you won,t find pagans slammed around much at this MB. Christians, yes, are slammed around, but pagans, no.

However, prepare for one of my “rants”. One of the reasons, and the biggest single reason wiccans/neopagans have a problem with public perceptions is they insist on calling themselves “Witches”. Now, there are “other” witches, the original claimants to the title, and who still use that title to refer to themselves to this day- the Satanists. Now, wicca/neopaganism is about are far away from Satanism as a religion can be, but Wiccans still insist on calling what they do “witchcraft”, even tho they know very well the poor public perception of that “loaded” word. However, there is a group of folks that WANT to be percieved of as “bad”, and insist on using that word. Well, Ok, but when folks get you mixed up with the REAL “witches”, don’t whine about poor public perceptions.

(And even tho I have done this rant before, I know there is someone who is going to say that the Christians turned the old celtic word into a perjorative. Nope, the word “Witch”, altho derived from the term “wicca/wicce”, came into its own, as a word to differ a “demon-worshiper” form a 'wise-woman", around the time of Shakespear. “demon-worshiper” etc, was the 1st, and still is the primary definition of the unique word “witch”. source: OED)

I posted this in its entirety since I don’t want to be accussed of misquoting him, but what got me was the first paragraph. I responded thusly:

Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden

Well, you won,t find pagans slammed around much at this MB. Christians, yes, are slammed around, but pagans, no.

**Give me a fucking break.

Please tell me how often Tris and Polycarp are “slammed around” for their Christianity?

We slam people for being assholes. If they happen to be Christians, so be it.

In fact, we don’t even slam people, we slam posts which are assholish. For example, many of your posts do not result in being “slammed,” Danny. This one, however, is quite HIGH in assholish content, it’s a loaded an insincere assertion, and it is not backed by facts.

In short, it should be retracted.

If, however, you do feel this place to en masse treat Christians so badly, maybe you should go.

**Then, instead of responding something along the lines of, “you’re right, of course” and possibly clarifying what he meant, he posted drivel that continued to defense his undefensible position somehow.

I was going to respond to that over in Great Debates, but I quickly realized that my response was better suited for this forum. As such…

*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden *

**Now, now, satan, don’t take that personally.

**I didn’t take it personally, MENSA-boy. I defended the entire fucking BOARD with my statement, a statement I stand by and unlike you, I have the facts to back up.

**It is true that this board attacks “liberal” Christians (like Tris, Poly & me) no more than anyone else, ie no “slams”.

**Okay, at best this statement implies that they are not Christians, since you indict “all Christians” in the original post and then, when I point out that isn’t the case, you still maintain it to be true. Sorry, but the above consession goes against everything you said in both the first post and the remainder of this one.

**But if you are a born-again “fundie” pagan, or an arch-conservative Jew, or any other “fundie” type of faith, you are not attacked anywhere near as much as you are if you are a “fundie” type Christian.

**Bullshit. I don’t think that the Orthodox Jews are treated badly here en masse, and I welcome Chaim or Dex to tell me otherwise. And the likes of Lauralee and Navigator (who seems to be posting a little again, nice to see you, sir!) who stayed after the initial LBMB hostility wore down were also treated with respect for the most part.

Again, as I said, assholes are treated badly here, not “Christians” and not even the narrowing above you mentioned above makes it an accurate statement.

**Look at your own post, just now to FoG.

**My post to FoG was about him treating us like conversion fodder and not as people. This is not much different than trolling as far as I am concerned. And in discussions with him before his, “with heavy heart I must go now, sad because you Godless heathens did not see it my way” bullshit showed respect for the most part, even through disagreement, except for when he started getting revelations from God which turned out to be full of shit and similar crimes against humanity.

**The SDMB is less tolerant of Christians than any other faith.

**Bullshit. It’s just that Christians seem to be the religious group most likely to show up here and do things this community does not like.

To wit: When I tried to recruit Islamic posters, I found two. One was run off the board. The other was treated mostly with respect. Guess which one was acting like an asshole, huh?

**Look thru the list of GD here, and in the past. How many have denounced Paganism? None.

**There is a thread there right now where a hit-and-run self-described Pagan raises the ire of some well-established posters. I’d link it, but I’m sure ou can find it.

**Othodox Judaism?- a couple have attacked the OT, but never “Jews”.

**They don’t act like assholes.

**Muslims? Nope, home free.

**You are so full of shit it’s coming out your ears. Fuck, I just mentioned how we treated the Islamic Creationist, didn’t I? You gonna say that didn’t happen?

**Buddhism? Nope.

**They don’t act like assholes.

**But here and in the PIT, there has been several anti-Christian threads.

**You still don’t fucking get it. They have trashed SPECIFIC Christians. They have trashed fundies who anoyed me on my fucking plane. They have trashed fundies who got on a fire truck at 8AM one day and woke up a neighborhood. They trashed a JEWISH politician who implied that only the religious can be moral. The latter shows you are full of shit TWO WAYS!!

And now, we have a thread trashing an asshole Christian who tars all with his single brush, and even when called on it, maintains his unsupported position with more bullshit.

Daniel, the next time the Q-tip meets resistance - stop.

**Now, I will admit, that here in the USA, we are exposed to more of the “fringe crazies” from Christianity- as we have more Christians. And those fringe crazies, usually “fundies” are good targets,I must admit, and I have taken my fair share of swipes at them also.

**WHICH ARE THE FUCKING PEOPLE I WAS TALKING ABOUT!!

So what is it, rocket scientist? Am I right or am I wrong? You agree, disagree, agree and disagree with me in one post. Make up your fucking mind.

**Just look at 2 threads: FoG telling everyone Christainity is good, and JC loves you: and you all line up to attack him.

**We all line up to poke holes in his attempts at logical thought, his blatant bullshit (like his "God-given revelation) and now, his martyr act.

**Some new guy, a Pagan, posts a similar message, and it is all “merry meets” and “glad to have ya’s”, with a few skeptics chiming in they “don’t belive in magic”, true, but nobody attacks paganism, or the poster.

**Bullshit. If this poster came back with links to Wicca publications of supposedly true “miracles of magick,” as FoG did, you think people would not call him on it as FoG was called on for doing that?

And nobody EVER attacked Christianity, jerk-off. They attacked this single asshole and those like him. They attacked his lack of logic. They attacked his motives. They attacked his lies. I don’t recall anyone doing anything differently to the Pagan than they did to FoG, and I want proof that in one case it was said that Christianity itself was attacked while we let Pagainism off carte blanche, which is what you assert.

**Yes, FoG has annoyed me also, but he is polite, and will debate.

**He will debate with convoluted logic. Those who appreciate honest debate saw quickly his tactics. But as has been shown elsewhere, honest debate elludes you frequently, Sparky.

**It is FUN to disagree with him, so I will miss him, even tho we represent near polar opposites in a faith.

**Fine, miss him. I missed Navigator and Thomas as far as people I disagreed with but could respect. They didn’t come here specifically to treat everyone as conversion fodder. I find that to be bullshit. I called him on it.

You want to miss him? Feel free to miss him. Feel freer to join him in self-imposed exile for all I care.

**Let us just face facts: there are 2 things this Board is intolerant of- Christianity, and ignorance. And while I will admit the 2 come together WAY too often for my liking, they are not the same.

**It is unoriginal, but it’s all I can muster with my frustration level as high as it is: Fuck you sideways.

As I said, and as I asked you to provide evidence that I was wrong (and you did not, and dare I say, cannot), we are intolerant of IGNORANCE, period. And yes, the two do come together, and when they do, we react.

However, the statement is disingenuous because, as I stated, we blast ignorance whether it’s Muslim or simply secular in nature. I see jmullany getting a LOT of shit from people, and he is always trying to take religion down. In fact, I have seen posts to him saying “stay off my side.”

Whereas, we do NOT blast Christianity en masse, which is EXACTLY what your loaded fallacy-laden statement says happens.

Prove it. Or shut the fuck up.

OK, you are not goig to agree with me, but think about it.

I thought about it.

You’re an asshole. And I don’t agree with you.

Let it be known that I am blasting you because you are an asshole who happens to be Christian here, Daniel. Not just because you’re a Christian.

You also have no facts to back up what you say, you say some things which show that I am right but lack the humility to admit you fucked up on this one and I actually AM right, and you futher show your true colors by doing so.

---

Yer pal,
Satan

[sub]I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Four months, three weeks, one day, 12 hours, 44 minutes and 23 seconds.
5781 cigarettes not smoked, saving $722.65.
Extra life with Drain Bead: 2 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 45 minutes.[/sub]

"Satan is not an unattractive person."-Drain Bead
[sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey![/sub]

[Lauralee]

And the likes of Lauralee and Navigator (who seems to be posting a little again, nice to see you, sir!) who stayed after the initial LBMB hostility wore down were also treated with respect for the most part.

Actually, on the whole I’m not treated, one way or the other. (Recent Pit thread aside.) It’s a danger that comes with lurking more than posting. But I’m OK with it.

[pldennison]

Satan: The fact that those New Age goofballs who spammed GD with their website promo the other day were treated to new rectums courtesy of the SDMB makes your argument that much stronger. So, come to think of it, were our recent Islamic posters, once they started with the same kind of fundamentalist silliness. Excelsior!

[wring]

one thought I have about Christianity is that it seems to be the only major religion that has as a tenent to “spread the faith”. Christians did the Crusades, the ministries to other countries etc etc and, so apparently, to be a good “Christian” you have to attempt to convert others to your faith.

I think THAT"S what makes them targets. The Hassidic Jews rarely come a knocking at my door to show me the “true way” for example.

So, in essence, I agree with Satan’s assessment - assholes get treated poorly here. And the definition of asshole includes specifically people who argue a point without backing it with evidence, use circular reasoning to prove their initial claim and then bow out to a "well, I’ll pray for you in your ignorance " routine when called on it. yep, it’s the posting, not the person and certainly not the religion.

[John_Corrado]

Lauralee- Recent Pit thread? If that was my “History of the Board War, Part I” statement, again, I apologize if it looked like I was painting all fundamentalists or LBMBers with the same brush.
As for daniel- I have yet to see a Christian slammed around for being a Christian. I have seen Christians slammed around for: 1.) Assuming that merely informing us that God exists will bring us around from our heathen thought; 2.) Making terrible arguments with poor logic and bad examples (why was FoG slammed so much in the Christianity & Love thread? Because he tried to paint God as all-loving, all-forgiving, but sends people to the fires of Hell for eternity for simple mistakes, and couldn’t see the dichotomy in that); 3.) Not being able to relate to people on this board in any fashion other than “I must bring you to the Light”; 4.) Not having the slightest clue about what other religions or people think (I am still boggled that jenkinsfan believed that atheists wished to silence all public religious talk).

In other words, danny boy, I have yet to see a Christian slammed for something other than being an asshole or an idiot. Guess what? I’ve seen Republicans slammed for being assholes and idiots, but I don’t consider this board to be biased against Republicans.
Time for a physical check-up, daniel; when you’re talking out of your ass that much, surgery may be required.

[gobear]

Full props to Satan for an excellent flame. It’s not the nature of one’s beliefs that draws ridicule, but how they are presented. If you come here, act self-righteous and refuse to listen to other people honestly, how can you expect to be respected?

[Lauralee]

No John!!! I got involved with thread over the weekend. Not your history lesson, I promise!

[Akatsukami]

wring had the misfortune to write:

one thought I have about Christianity is that it seems to be the only major religion that has as a tenent to “spread the faith”. Christians did the Crusades, the ministries to other countries etc etc and, so apparently, to be a good “Christian” you have to attempt to convert others to your faith.

And, of course, Muhammad and Siddhartha both hid their lights under a bushel :rolleyes:

I suggest that the reason that you think that is because you live (as do the majority of the posters to the SDMB) in a country that:
[ol]
[li]is predominantly Christian (at least nominally), and[/li][li]is and has been for some time rich enough to send out missionaries.[/li][/ol]

[wring]

*Originally posted by Akatsukami *
**wring had the misfortune to write:

one thought I have about Christianity is that it seems to be the only major religion that has as a tenent to “spread the faith”. Christians did the Crusades, the ministries to other countries etc etc and, so apparently, to be a good “Christian” you have to attempt to convert others to your faith.

And, of course, Muhammad and Siddhartha both hid their lights under a bushel :rolleyes:
**

I sit corrected.

Perhaps I should have said “Christians seem to be ‘world class’ at attempting to convert…”

[divemaster]

I don’t think that Christians are singled out or ‘bashed’ on this board, but I do think quite a few posters affect a condescending tone. Stuff like “You can believe in invisible pink unicorns if you want to, but as for me…” The implication is that anyone with half a brain would be pretty stupid to believe in God.

This is just an impression I get from time to time.

[ultress]

Can’t say that I can recall when christians were slammed as such, more to the point a ‘christian act’ was the basis for the thread.
Most of the threads I’ve agreed with. I don’t argue my faith with anyone, but at the same time if someone wants to have a discussion on it I’m glad to participate. It’s not my place to force my beliefs down your throat, but I will tell you what I believe and why if you ask.
I have to agree with Satan on this one, Danny boy. Sometimes you do a lot more harm than good.

[pldennison]

don’t think that Christians are singled out or ‘bashed’ on this board, but I do think quite a few posters affect a condescending tone. Stuff like “You can believe in invisible pink unicorns if you want to, but as for me…” The implication is that anyone with half a brain would be pretty stupid to believe in God.

Perhaps that’s because so many of them spend so much time telling so many that anyone with half a brain would be stupid not to.

[gobear]

The IPU only gets dragged out as a reductio ad abusrdumargument against the tautological BS that the Jeezers like to sling. If an intelligent Christian like Polycarp or Tris speaks, he gets a respectful audience. If a semiliterate cretin posts, “I believe in the Bible because God says so, I believe in God because the Bible says so,”
while managing to misspell “God”, “Bible”, and “the”, then he merits ridicule.

There is a rich intellectual tradition in Christian apologetics; St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin, William Law, and C.S. Lewis. Folks like FoG and Wildest Bill post as if they have never read a book in their lives, but are parroting what their pastor or youth group told them last Sunday. I don’t listen to the uneducated.

In addition, these Fundies have never heard that not all Christians are Southern Baptists. There are the rich, sonorous liturgies of the Greek Orthodox services, there is the pageantry of the Copts(an Egyptian Christian church), and the magisterial tradition of Catholicism. how can I take these people seriously when they seem to know so litle about christianity as a whole? They would need to show me that they’ve done some reading and thinking on the subject.

In addition, neither Wildest Bill or FoG has bothered posting in non-religious threads. They’ve made no effort to get to know us as people. Instead, we are merely objects, targets for their conversion efforts, and I tend to resent being treated like an object instead of a person.

[Sublight]

*And, of course, Muhammad and Siddhartha both hid their lights under a bushel *

Well, I live in a country with high Buddhist population (there are 2 temples within a 100m radius of my apartment, in fact), but I’ve never met Buddhist missionaries who wanted me to convert. Christians, OTOH, make up about 1-2% of the population, yet I get visited by Christian missionaries about once every 3-4 months.

I should add, though, that they were quite pleasant and polite people. After I said “no, thanks” they thanked me for my time and said good-bye.

–sublight.

Oh yeah, this is The Pit, isn’t it… uhh… and to heck with you, buddy!

[Jester]

First off, Huzzah and Kudos to Satan. Few do it better. Now, as for Daniel, if you need any MORE evidence, look at Wildest Bill. This man has debated around the same type of material that FoG and the rest did, only you know what? He did it WELL. And as a result of which, Wildest Bill is respected by people on the board, even in debates.

We don’t flame Christians, we flame dumbass mega-asshole Christians who try to impose their beliefs on us without evidence, or post a thread in “Great Debates” and then refuse to debate about it. So Ku-ku-ka-friggin-chu, Daniel, your argument has been officially torn to shreds.

Try to keep what’s left of your dignity and post a retraction. Or, if you wanna keep being yourself, stick your head a few more inches up your ass and try to fight your way out of the corner you got yourself into. We’re waiting.

[Lauralee]

But food for thought…

What would your reactions have been had I (a relative unknown) had started a thread titled “Why are Christians so persecuted?”

I don’t think I would have seen quite so many “Welcomes” and polite disagreements. Quite honestly, there are a lot of people who go the GD who seem to think that it is their responsibility to convert people. They forget themselves, and the fact that the Holy Spirit gets to do that. We’re just supposed to have an answer if you ask us. So I can understand it when people automatically think not-so-nice thoughts when they see a new one pop up. But in all honesty, had the OP been Christian instead of Wiccan, I don’t think the responses would have been at all the same.

I’m gonna go hide now, so y’all can flame me.

[Satan]

*Originally posted by Lauralee *

**What would your reactions have been had I (a relative unknown) had started a thread titled “Why are Christians so persecuted?”

**

Well, I already know you, we chat off the boards and I respect you. As such, I think I would treat it like any other thread of that nature.

Knowing you, you would be clear to point out that you don’t mean ALL Christians are persecuted, and clearly state what you mean exactly in terms of who is doing the persecution as well.

Heck, remember at LBMB when I posted a link to a real article about Christians being REALLY persecuted in some Muslim country? Being arrested for praying as a group? So, I did the same thing…

However, if you - unlike you personally - made a post similar to something the idiot LBMBer billy the witness might do and say “The ACLU persecutes Christians,” I would take that on fiercely and with facts behind me.

If you seemed like someone who was just misinformed, I would take a different tact as to if I thought you were trolling and maybe be a bit condescending.

However, if I did this and the poster subsequently showed me I was mistaken, I would apologize and commence treating said poster with the respect he or she deserved.

And while I am not the benchmark for this board, I believe that most people here would react in a similar manner.

---

Yer pal,
Satan

[sub]I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Four months, three weeks, one day, 14 hours, 25 minutes and 34 seconds.
5784 cigarettes not smoked, saving $723.00.
Extra life with Drain Bead: 2 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 0 minutes.[/sub]

"Satan is not an unattractive person."-Drain Bead
[sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey![/sub]

[Wildest_Bill]

*Originally posted by goboy *

Folks like FoG and Wildest Bill post as if they have never read a book in their lives, but are parroting what their pastor or youth group told them last Sunday. I don’t listen to the uneducated.

I have read a few not that many though always been a big movie buff. Betcha I have seen more movies than you. But I am starting to read more. I’ve decided you don’t like me much. Do you?

In addition, neither Wildest Bill or FoG has bothered posting in non-religious threads. They’ve made no effort to get to know us as people. Instead, we are merely objects, targets for their conversion efforts, and I tend to resent being treated like an object instead of a person.

I resent this statement because it is unfactual(in otherwords it is plum unaccurate) and it is just plain untrue. I know goboy would like to lump me in some category of people but he can not do it this time and I have proof. Take a look started a post with the topic on your top 5 sports cars choices. And I responded to a topic on not wearing seatbelts on motorcycle helmets. And if you look at the times and dates of post they are before you(goboy) viciously attacted me unwarrated again on this one. Yes. Just imagine me acting like Ace Ventura pet detective when he is right about something with words and jesters that is how I am acting right now! Ha, SO THERE! Ooohh it feels sooo gooood to be sooo right. Alrighty then.

[Gomez]

Note to self, don’t fuck with Satan, ever. Don’t even talk about it, he might be listening.

That was one kickass flame Satan, kudos.

[gobear]

I have read a few not that many

No surprise there.

though always been a big movie buff. Betcha I have seen more movies than you.

Well, if you want to go there, I’ll match my DVD and video library in breadth and depth any day. So, what’s your favorite Kurosawa film? Mine’s a tie between Kagemusha and Ran, and, of course, La Grande Illusion or Les Regles De La Jeu would be my favorite Renoir film.

But I am starting to read more. I’ve decided you don’t like me much. Do you?

Oh, puh-leeze, get off the cross, honey, somebody needs the wood. I neither like nor dislike you. Possibly, in the real world, I might like you very much. There’s a raging Fundy in my company who I like immensely, despite his beliefs. But, then, he treats me like a friend, not a target. In any event, get over your insecurities.

Anyone on this board will tell you that, while I’m ordinarily an amiable fellow, I can become a condescending SOB when the mood takes me. Not an attractive quality, I admit, but there it is.

And I responded to a topic on not wearing seatbelts
on motorcycle helmets. And if you look at the times and dates of post they are before you(goboy) viciously attacted
me unwarrated again on this one.

I stand corrected. You have, indeed, posted to those threads. However, if you think I viciously attacked you, I envy you your innocence.

Yes. Just imagine me acting like Ace Ventura pet detective when he is right about something with words and jesters that is how I am acting right now!

The word is spelled “gestures”. Jesters are comical fellows who prance and act foolish in bells and motley. Wow, I guess the word does fit you, Wildest Bill.

Now, THAT was vicious, or, at least really snide and bitchy.