DITWD reiterated his usual claims about me. In my defense, I pointed out to Randy (to whom DITWD had directed his claim) that DITWD isn’t exactly the kind of guy you can trust. DITWD, of course, just reiterated his claims that it’s all a “Big lie.”
I wrote up a big post complete with extensive quotes and evidence, only to have the #$%&*! message board delete it all because I hadn’t filled out the subject field. I’m breaking it down into smaller pieces, so if it happens again I will have less to rewrite.
DITWD is waging a rather petty vendetta against me. Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that his accusations are without merit, so he tries to convince new people who aren’t aware of the whole story. FWIW:
1.) DITWD has openly declared his intention to harass me.
I started a thread to ask people for book suggestions here:
As we will see, DITWD has a tendency to lie in order to back his arguments, and if anyone catches him, he responds with accusations and personal attacks. Thus after arguing with me in a separate thread, he decided to attack me by hijacking the book suggestions thread:
2.) DITWD periodically lies in order to further his argument. If challenged on this, he frequently resorts to insults and personal attacks, and appears to have accused Collounsbury of being part of an anti-DITWD conspiracy involving myself. (Note: after reviewing DITWD’s bile I have decided to qualify my original claim more carefully. In the interests of honesty, here is the original: “When someone catches him in a lie, he accuses them of being part of a vast and sinister conspiracy which he believes me to be some sort of evil mastermind of.”)
Here is the mother of all threads proving that DITWD is dishonest, made possible by Gaudere’s extensive research:
Here is a very nice example of DITWD’s amazing capacity for dishonesty. In this thread, he tries to prove his argument by citing a newspaper article. Pldennison checked the original article, and found that DITWD had extensively misrepresented it:
Picmr points out that Collounsbury did not, in fact, call DITWD a “fucking racist,” and gives this quote from Collounsbury:
Trapped, DITWD falls back on a combination of shameless weaselling and personal attacks:
The final dollop of hypocrisy is the icing on the cake: after calling picmr an “ignorant slut,” a “buffoon,” a “cretin,” and an “ignorant pissant,” he concludes that mature, intelligent folk do not use personal attacks and needless profanity when debating.
Note his claims about “Ben’s ‘big lie’,” which he claims picmr is helping to spread. Here, in the same thread, he implies that Collounsbury is deliberately trying to smear his reputation and again reiterates the “Big lie” claim:
To which Collounsbury replies:
Last but not least, it’s worth looking at one of his smears against Gaudere:
In the “Books for Fundies” thread, DITWD described an earlier debate with Gaudere (on Biblical archaeology and the Internet Infidels website) thusly:
Seems pretty complimentary, right? After all, he’s saying that he conceded the point, because she presented a better argument than he did.
Now, after people pointed to Gaudere’s Pit thread as proof of DITWD’s dishonesty, here’s how he characterized Gaudere’s debating style:
In conclusion, I would warn you to be very careful about believing anything DITWD tells you, particularly if it concerns me. He cannot be trusted even if he provides cites, because, as Gaudere and pldennison have shown, DITWD grossly misrepresents his cites quite regularly. You are well advised to read through the links I have provided (particularly Gaudere’s Pit thread) before you believe any of DITWD’s accusations that I am orchestrating a “Big lie” campaign against him.
Look at my post here for a very similar discussion. Then check the times!
And, btw, a word of support: every time DITWAD implies you’re a Nazi, I believe he loses that much more credibility in the eyes of our fellow Dopers (and he didn’t have much to start with). Don’t let the little weasel get you down.
Eh, sorry, I’m confused. Is “The Big Lie” some kind of universal secret code for “Nazis” or “Goebbels”, or is it just a Daniel~ thing? Evidently I haven’t been paying attention. I looked through the whole linked thread and didn’t see where Daniel~ called Ben a Nazi.
DDG- “The Big Lie” is a propaganda tool, used during the WWII period. Goebels, the Reichsminister for Propaganda, is generally credited with popularizing it, altho the Stalinists, under Molotov, perhaps have a better claim. In the “Big Lie” you simply make an outragous claim- and repeat it as if it is the truth, and then refer back to that as “It is well known that xxxx”- as by that time the “Lie” IS well known, sorta. Repeat as nessesary. It usage is not limited to WWII, and Nazis, by any means- see “USA=Great Satan”. Oddly enough, just a while ago, in a GD thread, Ben admitted he was knowledgable about Nazi propaganda techniques. I have never called Ben a Nazi, altho i came pretty close to it, by saying “Ben is using the ‘Big Lie’ techniques of his freind, Goebels”- however, i did apologize for the crack about Goebels being Bens freind. As you can see here, DDG, my freind, Ben continues the use of the “Big Lie”- in fact he has hijacked many GD threads to launch personal attacks on me.
Nav- I already made it to ten. In one case I deserved it, in another there was some confusion over terms (which Col & I finally worked out)- however, in these latest- I actually feel honored to be hated by these “folk”. Some folks can’t win a debate by normal means, and thus resort to personal & ad hominem attacks.
Yes, but it’s not all that much of a secret. The earliest attribution of the phrase I can find is from Hitler:
“The great mass of people will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one.” Adolf Hitler (1889-1945), Mein Kampf, vol. 1, ch. 10 (1925)
The phrase is also associated with Goebbels, Hitler’s minster of propaganda.
Now days, the phrase “The Big Lie” has become so watered down that it’s applied to anything someone doesn’t like, but it’s original meaning (or at least the earliest meaning I’m familar with) is certainly of Nazi origin.
When DITWD claims that Ben is using the “Big Lie” technique of “his pal Goebbels”, he’s certainly comparing Ben to a Nazi and implying that Ben is sympathetic to Nazis.
As a Jew, I’m disgusted by someone being falsely tarred with the label “Nazi”. I don’t think Soup-Nazis are funny or appropriate. I don’t think concentration camp jokes are funny or appropriate and I don’t think DITWD’s trivalization of the Holocaust in a feeble attempt to score cheap points on other posters is funny or appropriate.
::deep breath:: Sorry, DDG. Didn’t mean to blow up during a response to you. Slightly touchy subject for me.
“Admitted”? DITWD, you make it sound like it’s some sort of crime to know about the history of WWII.
I mean, let’s turn it around. DITWD, I demand that you confess: are you or are you not familiar with the “Big lie” technique of Goebbels?
Would you care to provide some quotes?
You mean like Gaudere, about whom you say that a) she argued better than you, and b) her arguments are incoherent anti-Bible rants?
DITWD, tell me something: what makes you think you’re going to heaven? What sort of enormous self-delusion must you engage in to make you believe that you can wipe your butt on the words of Christ on a daily basis and still stay out of hell?
You have gone too far. First, you seem very sensitive for a Jew, in fact, more sensitive than zev or Chaim, re the usage of the word “nazi”. Are you even more devout than them? It appears not, while zev is out there, trying to educate folks about, and defend his religion & the his G-d…YOU are out there, attacking & ridiculing that same faith. You have ridiculed & attacked the Judeo-Christian religion in countless threads in GD, and have for all intents & purposes called the Torah so much “myths”. Or, maybe the Book of Genesis is only a “myth” when the Christians read it, eh? You know, zev & I are freinds- why? Because we RESPECT each others faith.
And then you accuse me of “trivializing the holocaust”- and just when did I mention it, in a demeaning way? Ahh, but I see <follow this logic, folks>: Step one- I say Ben is doing the “Big Lie” 2. The “Big Lie” was used by nazis (amoung others) step 3. The Nazis committed the Holocaust… Step 4- thus i am “trivializing the holocaust”. You know, every time a nazi device is used, it does not mean that those who point it out are “trivializing the holocaust”- you DO know the early State of (modern) Isreal used leftover nazi weapons, right? Were they “trivializing the Holocaust”?
But- its OK for you to say this about me “as a Jew”- as you have said. Well, buddy- my relatives were bulldozed into the same freaken mass graves at the same damn concentration camps. Every one of my European relatives were rounded up & sent to concentration camps- and AFAIK- none came out. And, I have mentioned this several times before, and thus, if you as as expert on my posts as you claim you are- you actually KNEW my relatives were killed in nazi concentration camps- and yet you sit there with your bigoted face hanging out, and claim that I am the one that “trivializes the Holocaust”. You are an insensitive, lying bigot.
I’m not particularly devout. That didn’t stop the Nazis from killing my relatives. It doesn’t stop the hatred coming from Neo-Nazis who, if they had their way, would do the same thing to me that they’d do to more Orthodox Jews.
I also don’t appreciate the snide innuendo that I’m somehow not pious enough. I read, enjoy and respect Chaim and Zev’s posts, but the fact that they seem more Orthodox than I am doesn’t make me less of a Jew.
And, Weasel-boy, show me a thread where I mocked the Judeo-Christian religion. I’ve mocked creation ‘scientists’ in roughly four or five threads. The fact that you consider 4 to be “countless” gives us an indicator as to the level of your intellect, the fact that you didn’t provide any cites simply accenuates your disingenuous arguements and sloppy research and the fact that you lied once again by putting the word “myth” in quotes implying I said it in reference to the Torah shows you to be a lying weasel. If I did, provide a cite where I used the word “myth” in reference to the book of Genesis as such. I have said that I find creation ‘scientists’ (the ones who believe in a water canopy) to be pathetic, but that’s hardly the same thing as dismissing the entire Torah/Bible is it?
I strongly encourage everyone who’s still interested (a diminishingly small group, I’m suspect) to check the three major threads regarding creation ‘science’ that I was involved in (here, here, and here. I thought there was a fourth, but I can’t find it) and judge for yourself. Unlike some, I prefer to back things up with links, rather than simple attacks.
You’ve used the “Big Lie” phrase in reference to Nazisn (“Your pal Gobbels”), the phrase is attributed to Nazis and, yup, you’re marginalizing the Holocaust. By flinging around the term ‘Nazi’, or making snide ‘Nazi’ innuendos every time you get into a hard spot in a debate, you’re trivializing the term ‘Nazi’. Someone on the board quipped something like (I can’t find the link) “If they’re not planning to invade Poland and exterminate portions of the population, then the word Nazi isn’t appropriate”, but whoever it was phrased it better. Danno, people aren’t Nazis just because they disagree with you.
I did know that you said your relatives were also rounded up and exterminated by Nazis and that’s one of the reasons that I’m so disgusted with you for using the innuendo that “Nazi” means “People I have a disagreement with.”
Where, exacly have I lied? Links and sites, please. Insensitive? I’ll let others judge. Bigot? How? If you mean “Against the lies of creation ‘scientists’”, then yup. I’m ‘bigoted’. If you mean “Pissed at DITWDs ongoing lies and use of the Nazi innuendo tatic”, then yup, by your definition, I’m ‘bigoted’. If however, you mean “One fanatically devoted to one’s own race, religon, opinion or politics, and intolerant of those who differ.” (Websters, emph. mine), then all I can say is that I’m not the one who called Gaudere (GAUDERE!!) “so very violently atheist, that anyone making any sort of arguement based on facts that is pro Bible makes her incoherant with rage” (here)because she held a different opinion and I’m not the one running around accusing others of being “pals” with Nazis because they have a different point of view.