I’m looking forward to seeing where Dennis and Thomas from Eyes of the Dragon fit in.
Beadalin had this to say:
I think he [King] has inserted himself far too much into the plot to the point of making me, the reader, be all too reminded that this is a work of fiction. Nothing in a fictional book should EVER remind the reader that they’re reading fiction. It pissed me off.
To which I can only disagree… I’ve read several books which had exactly that effect, and when it’s an intended effect, it can work marvellously. Perhaps the best one is The Athenian Murders by Jose Carlos Somoza. Perhaps I’m jumping the gun, but I’m seeing a strong similarity between how that book progressed and how the Dark Tower books are progressing.
My spoilers and predictions:
[spoiler]In The Athenian Murders, the reader slowly becomes aware that they are being sucked in as a participant in the events of the book. I’ve heard it described as a “self-reflexive” text, meaning that the author deliberately involves the reader on a meta-level of the story. It is a work of fiction that is specifically tailored to be recognized as a work of fiction, evn as the reader is reading it, and in which the characters come to recognize themselves as only characters, creating “levels” of reality for the characters, the reader, and those in between (sound familiar?). Somoza makes it work brilliantly.
I don’t know whether or not King is shooting for a similar thing, but it’s sure starting to feel like it. The more and more frequent cultural literary references – Harry Potter, Richard Adams (Shardik), Isaac Asimov (Andrew), Dr. Doom, Arthurian legend (Maerlyn), lightsabers, and more – and then finally this thing with Callahan and the acknowledgment that he is a fictional character, somehow made “real” in Roland’s world, or in multiple worlds.
And let’s not forget that the Dark Tower itself is a literary creation, from the Robert Browning poem King cites as his inspiration for the series.
My feeling is that the series is leading up an allegorical representation of literature and all forms of mass media. The wheres and whens of Roland’s world are a confluence of not only King’s work, but all worlds created by the imagination of those who write, or draw, or make films. The Dark Tower itself is the force of imagination, and the empty room at the top is supposed to be occupied by… the audience? The Constant Reader? The Beams are the media by which we experience the stories others tell… it’s no coincidence that the Beams support the world, this is very much in line with King’s view of literature and art. The Crimson King is (maybe) representative of those who would commoditize literature and thus cheapen it, and the Breakers (who are for the most part unwilling to do harm, if what we saw in Hearts in Atlantis is consistent) are the men and women who work for the Crimson King… they have the right intentions, but the work they do is potentially harmful.
Some of this is a stretch, I know… and honestly, some of it’s only half-formed. But the idea that King is now intending us to recognize Roland’s story as fiction even as we’re reading it seems like a strong one to me. King has said that “once he’s done with the Dark Tower books, there’s not much left to say.” I think these books are going to be nothing short of his allegorical statement about literature, those who create it, and those who experience it. If King truly is going to stop publishing, then he wants to go out with a bang, and this is about the biggest Bang he could try.[/spoiler]
Long story short: It’s an ambitious effort, perhaps beyond what King intended when he started the series, but he’s well on his way to pulling it off, from what I can tell.
And so I disagree with Beadalin’s statement above. I don’t think what he says applies to all fiction, and in fact some fiction can do exactly what he says it shouldn’t do, and can succeed at it admirably.
I don’t know that I’m right about what King’s leading up to… if I’m right, I look forward to seeing what happens in the next two books. If I’m wrong, I’m curious as to what he is trying, and I’m still looking forward to the next two books. Anxiously.
I loved Wolves of the Calla, by the way. Good story, and the last chapters just flew by… all the preparation leading up to ten minutes of fast action, very coo (and perhaps also an allegorical representationl. I think my favorite of the series is still Drawing of the Three, but King is certainly maintaining the high standards he has set for himself in the Dark Tower series so far.
I think at this point, the series has surpassed the status of “could be the best thing King’s ever written.” As long as he doesn’t screw it up royally at the end, this simply is the best thing he’s written.
I’d been assuming that since reading The Talisman ages ago, but I had to discard that theory after Black House (and even moreso after Wolves of the Calla).
Unless it turns out that Roland’s Old Ones are us, then maybe Jack went to Roland’s world before it moved on, I suppose. So a timeline would be Us --> World Moves On --> The Territories --> Roland’s world.
I think they’re different levels of the Tower, for a couple of reasons:
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In both The Talisman and Black House, it’s demonstrated that the Territories are smaller than our world – at one point, Jack observes the curvature of the earth on the horizon. He also travels much further in the Territories than he does in the same amount of time here. The opposite seems to be true of Roland’s world – distances have expanded.
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The whole Twinners thing. Doesn’t seem to be true of Roland’s world. UNLESS, that’s somehow connected to the twins in the Calla. Maybe. We’ll see.
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Were the Little Sisters vampires when the Queen (Jack’s mom’s Twinner) was under their care? I honestly can’t remember.
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The Wolves of the Calla introduced the idea of many versions of America, so I wonder if the Territories aren’t another version of reality, connected to ours and to Roland’s, but not synonymous with either.
Guess we’ll find out, eh?
Oh, and I forgot this one… on the subject of The Talisman.
Does anyone else think that Jack’s Talisman is one of the thirteen glass balls of power from Roland’s world? It’s certainly not “Black Thirteen,” but its powers do seem similar.
Wow, Avalonian’s post wasn’t there when I started mine. 
I hadn’t considered those ideas, Avalonian, but I must say, they do seem to fit. I haven’t read The Athenian Murders; I think I should check them out to see a good example of involving the reader in the fiction. I’ve only seen it done poorly, so the idea makes me nervous about the Dark Tower series, seeing as I’ve loved it so much, thus far. I want it to be true, you know?
Hmmm. You’ve given me a lot to chew on. I’ll be off to the library after work. Thanks!
You know, I hadn’t thought of that. Good observation.
As far as the timeline goes, you may be right, there, too. However, with the flux of Roland’s world, including the directions and time being off, it’s certainly conceivable that it’s the same world as The Territories.
Could the ka-tet be in The Territories version of, say, India? Just because The Territories are a smaller version of our world doesn’t mean that they have to stay confined to the equivalent of the geographic United States. After all, the doors open in New York City, sure. But that doesn’t mean that the travelers have to be in the same area. Perhaps the doors allow Roland, et al, to move through distance as well as time.:dubious:
Yeah, but what about Citgo and stuff?
Yeah, but what about Citgo and stuff?
You’re welcome! If you’re planning on reading The Athenian Murders, I hope I haven’t completely ruined it for you. Part of the fun of that book is the truly elegant way it’s done. It really came in as a surprise to me… you can tell something weird is going on, but you don’t have an idea what it is until just near the end.
I’m still chewing on the Dark Tower stuff myself, mind you… I still don’t know where “nineteen” fits into the whole thing, for example. Though it’s interesting that both “nineteen” and “ninety-nine” seem to be important.
Oh, and another literary reference I forgot to mention… “Lennie” and “George” from Callahan’s story, the same names of the two brothers in Steinbeck’s Of Mice and Men, which King points out by saying that their personalities are the reverse of what one might expect. There’s more, I know there is…
Hmmm. I haven’t read The Athenian Murders (but I think I will now), but the first thing that hit me after reading the aforementioned parts, was “OMG King is pulling a Heinlein!” Didn’t know whether to giggle or groan!
I’m actually a big fan of Heinlein (early and late!) so I guess it doesn’t bother me too much if King decides to pull all his fictions together. Hey, maybe we could see Lazarus Long again and find out what happens after “Cat”.
For those who don’t know
[spoiler] In The Number of the Beast RAH decides to tie all of his books together with the theory that all universes are “fictions” So we get to see Laz and crew meet up with Jubal, Capt. John Carter & Dejah Thoris, the Lensmen, not to mention Oz and Wonderland by way of “Gay Deceiver” an nth dimensional craft. . .
OK, I see I’m not explaining it well, but if you’ve read later Heinlein you probably get it, if not you should, it’s a hoot IMHO.
[/spoiler]
I also definitely liked the self-referential nature of it, and the Harry Potter et. al. I think it’s definitely Heinleinian… the world that Roland is in is, as he gets closer to the Dark Tower, more and more a world of stories. It was commented on earlier in the book, that the whole Calla setup was almost like a fairytale.
So which other books that relate to the DT series do people recommend I read? I just read Salem’s Lot, because I didn’t want to feel left out about Father Callahan, and I’ve read The Stand, which I love, several times.
Eyes of the Dragon? The Talisman? The Regulators?
MaxTheVool, Eyes of the Dragon was pretty enjoyable, IMHO. The Regulators, eh. But The Talisman??? Go immediately and read it. And don’t come back until you do:p
Good places to start. I’d also recommend Desperation, which is related, but not required to understand the Dark Tower stuff.
In the beginning of TWotC, where it lists King’s other books, the ones that are bolded are related to the Dark Tower series. I’ll try to do it from memory, here, though…
[ul]It
Desperation
The Regulators
Eyes of the Dragon
The Talisman
Black House
Insomnia
Everything’s Eventual (for the short story)
Hearts In Atlantis
Salem’s Lot[/ul]
You might also want to check this site for some decent info and timelines concerning the Dark Tower series.
[sub]I’m sure that I missed a book or several in my list. Anyone that wants to contribute is certainly welcome[/sub]
I highly recommend Stephen King’s Universe, which has a rather lengthy section on the DT universe in particular. A must read for SK fans, definitely.
Personally, I liked DTV quite a bit, although - believe it or not - I found Eddie to be a little annoying at times. Sometimes he obviously had developed as a character, but other times he was the same dopey smartass he had been in the earlier books.
I’d love to get an Oy stuffed animal! Heck, they should have action figures for these guys anyway.
There are 19 related books.
He wrote the Gunslinger at around age 19.