I have a special needs child with verbal delays and a bad habit of scratching. she doesn’t ‘get’ timeouts. so this is a special case, YMMV, ETC
the scratching really seems to be a mix of both deliberate and unconcoius behavior. I won’t go into the full details.
However, what has worked pretty well for us is that when she scratches, I snap/flick the back of her hand with my middle finger. I do it hard enough to hurt in an irritating way. I also say ‘no scratching.’
She is so MUCH better these days. And it’s very rare when she scratches her twin sister.
(And we are relocating back to the US in a month so she will be in a good special needs program to get the help she needs.)
Maybe it’s just me, but if someone’s kid hits or kicks me and the parent doesn’t respond, I will. It might be with my “mom” voice: “Do NOT hit/kick me.” It might be holding the kid’s arms firmly in place so they can’t attack, while I use the “mom” voice. It might be The Look.
I’d never hit another’s child - heck, I didn’t hit my own - but I would make sure the kid knew that I wasn’t taking any crap from him/her. And if the parent raised a stink: “I do not permit children to hit/kick me.”
Fortunately, my friends mostly had reasonably behaved kids.
I can’t imagine what would have happened if my parents tried to put me on time out. I do know it wouldn’t have worked at all. I don’t have kids, but I’m just baffled as to how using time outs would ever achieve anything. I’m certainly going to try when the time comes, though, because I’d feel awful ever hitting my kids and I don’t believe in doing something purposefully that would make me feel awful.
Now spankings, those achieved something. I was spanked as a kid. And it was the most terrifying thing, ever. It got a point where I would stop misbehaving because the threat of a spanking was enough.
All of this is a very self centered way of me saying you should take the child to a store and show her the pinatas. Point out the biggest most colorful one. Then whisper in her ear that if she doesn’t stop acting like a little shit, you’re going to hang her upside down and beat her with a stick, just like a pinata. Then buy some rope and a baseball bat. Problem solved.
And of course you should absolutely not do this. But it does achieve a dual purpose in that, if the kid doesn’t get the hint, you have successfully identified a potential dummy child. (Yes I know I’m going to get a karmic punishment for this post)
I’d take it a step further and say, “I don’t permit ANYONE to hit/kick me.” Just because they’re pint-sized doesn’t mean you should sit and tolerate someone attacking you, any more than owners of a chihuahua should allow their dog to run amuck and attack everyone just because he can’t actually do major harm.
Speaking of dogs, I think that all parents should watch “The Dog Whisperer” because Cesar Millan’s techniques with dogs would work equally well with children:
#1 Earn their respect and trust by being calm and in control. Don’t yell or scream or attack them back or act like a nut. Be calm yet assertive. Show them in a very even-tempered way that you ARE in charge. Dogs, like humans, actually like when someone is in control because it helps them relax.
#2 Discipline (which is NOT a negative word) should be immediate and, most of all, consistent. Give them one corrective warning (“No.”) and if they don’t correct their behavior, then be prepared to do y (e.g. give a 30 second time-out). Resist the long lectures (blah blah blah blah) and the mixed messages such as hugging them while you’re yelling at them. Just make it short and sweet and consistent. Pretty soon you’ll never have to go beyond the “no” or (in my case) the hairy eyeball.
This is when it helps to have a discussion with your GF before hand and agree that all people acting as parents, be they a girlfriend, grandma or a babysitter, have the authority to do y. A united front is always best because children are manipulative little beasts and will find the crack in the armor if there is one.
#3 Affection/attention shouldn’t be given when they are misbehaving as it reinforces their bad behavior. Don’t stroke her hair and ask her if she’s had a bad day after she tried to bite her friend’s ear off. There is a definite time and place for affection, but it’s not when they are acting out. Be affectionate when they are calm because then they associate that state of mind with something positive.
#4 Regular exercise is a must - Seriously! Don’t expect a kid who has tons of energy to sit and behave all day at school/day care and all night at home. Give him an outlet for that pent up energy and frustration!
I should address this, but I’m not finished reading all the responces. I THINK the concern is, (I’ll have to talk to mom to make sure), that her child will tear the room apart, and perhaps break things.
I saw a “South Park” about the “The Dog Whisperer” taking over when the Supernanny didn’t cut it…
As far as my role in all this, I will not be a punching bag, but I would rather not be the one punishing her (at this point). I’m sending my girlfriend this link because she and I have been talking about this, and I’m asking on her behalf too. I’m sure she’ll be thankful for all the advice as well.
That child is controlling mommy and mommy is giving her daughter permission to do so. She needs to watch that nanny show mentioned. When you expect bad behavior from a child, you get bad behavior.
I have no experience, and thus no advice, with regard to child rearing. However, I am curious, if you have “just started seeing this girl,” and are therefore presumably something of an unknown quantity, as to why she is soliciting you for advice and assistance regarding the discipline of her daughter, or more pointedly, why she has you in regular contact with the daughter at all in this point in your relationship. Due to my upbringing, I’m highly suspicious of women (and more generally of parents, although the other half is not of concern to me) who are so incautious as to expose children to their dating life at a casual, let’s-see-where-things-go stage. Not only is there the potential risk to the child of being exposed to an initially concealed abusive or dysfunctional influence, but it is also the case that children–especially those with fractured families–will often form intense bonds rapidly with agreeable adults and will feel neglected or abandoned when the primary relationship cools or disintegrates for no apparent reason from the child’s perspective. This is creating the basis for a lifetime of anxiety and dysfunction by repeating the same relationship pattern, and in general is not an indication of good parenting etiquette and emotional maturity. There is no harm in introducing Mr. So-And-So as “mommie’s friend who she’s going to dinner with,” on the way out the door, but the last thing a young child needs is to be mute witness to a serial of revolving door relationships. Once she’s decided that Mr. Right Now is beyond Mr. Could Be Real and is sliding into Mr. At Least Good Enough To Settle For it’s time to start thinking about making formal introductions and planning pseudo-family outings.
As for what I think you should do? Go to the local bookstore, located the Child Development section, find a motherly-looking employee, and ask for recommendations for a book on child discipline for 3-5 year olds. Then, wrap the book in tissue paper and put it in a nice bag, invite your special lady friend out of a cup of coffee, present her with your purchase, and explain that while you really dig her and she’s the groove in your racetrack, you think it is a little early to be getting too intertwined, and besides, you have no special experience in raising any children and particularly hers, so she needs to take the lead and you’ll follow her direction with regard to the rearing of her child.
Sorry to harsh on your romantic buzz (of which I am admittedly not just a little envious) but you are entrenching behind enemy lines and putting civilians at risk with an inadvisable level of involvement in peacekeeping activities in which your current degree of vested interest is insufficient to ensure that you’ll see the mission through to establishment of stable governance, and even though the natives may initially welcome you and your gifts with open arms they’re rarely satisfied to have you occupying their lands without an agreement on perpetual autonomy.
Just want to second the suggestion that you be careful here. Growing up my Mom DID have a revolving door of relationships (at least a handful of serious ones, not counting 4 marriages), with men who I was enthusiastically encouraged to call ‘‘Dad’’ or view as a father figure despite the fact that they might vanish the next day. We would usually end up shacking up with them and then moving out abruptly so not only did I lose a parent, I lost brothers and sisters. At the time I didn’t think it was a big deal, but looking back I realize it was a tremendous amount of loss for a child to suffer. I remember when I was thirteen years old, I was marching in a parade and saw a guy my Mom had seriously dated when I was seven, who I hadn’t seen since the day he left. I promptly burst into tears. I still have the valentine’s card he made me that year, and I don’t think I ever got closer to having a real, loving father then I did that year. Not even kids can really judge how that stuff affects them. That’s the parent’s job. And if she can’t do her job, you need to do it for her.
My ex and I split up around the time my daughter was 2. At 3 she started throwing tantrums just like you described. 1GothMama described basically everything we did and they stopped. Be aware however that once you start getting things under control she’ll escalate and start throwing them in places she thinks you can’t handle them that way. It’s embarrasing to leave a full cart of groceries to take your screaming child out of the store but for her future sanity she needs to.
In case anyone has any doubts that the child knows what’s going on and is willfully doing this my daughter continued the tantrums with her father for a year after they stopped when she was with me. They worked with him, he gave her attention ONLY when she was throwing a tantrum.
No worries Stranger. Some good suggestions there. Some things I should point out:
She didn’t ask me to ask anyone about this. She seems lost, and I told her I would come here to ask, because though I may not be the sharpest person in the world, I know enough to go to smart people for advice.
I rarely see the child myself. But like I said, I’ve been the victim of one of her tantrums. I actually worry that her mother’s too soft on her, and no matter where to relationship goes, I want her child to grow up right. (So your concerns for my being too much of a presence in her life, at this stage, is helpful). I’m not too hard on my GF because I understand how hard it would be on me if I were in her shoes. I’m glad I’m not at a point of our relationship where I have to be a disciplinarian, because it’s not an easy job.
So I volunteered to come here and ask. We also don’t want to confuse the child either… she has a father and I’m not trying to stand in the way of that. I just want to help her be a better mother, more for her kid’s sake rather than my own or hers. I do want to spend time with her little girl, (is that ok to do?). We were NEVER intimate in ANY way in front of her. We just hang out. Do you Dopers think this is this ok? I have a feeling, (but of course I don’t know), that this girl and I will always be friends if things don’t work out. But like you say… if things were to ‘cool off’, I wouldn’t want that to hurt the child. Any advice?
My GF always feels guilty for spending alone time with me, because of the time away from her daughter.
Another problem she has is that she lives with her parents. They both look after her when we go on dates. They’re too easy on the little girl, and often spoil her and give in to her tantrums. She doesn’t like dumping the parental respectabilities on her parents so much either. She feels bad that her parents have to deal with her bad behavior while she’s out with me.
Frankly, my suggestion is that the mother dump you and give all her available attention to her child. I really don’t believe people with children in the house should date and remarry. It’s traumatic enough to have a split family, then the child has to deal with their parent spending less time and attention on them, right when they need more, and then Og forbid, new siblings.
Sorry to be harsh, but I think the mom’s guilt in this case is probably right on target.
So, are you saying she shouldn’t ever date?
I’m just curious if you’re saying this as a result of the childs age, or if you think she should be alone until the kid’s… like 18?
Does anyone else agree? Like I said, I’m asking for her child’s sake, not my own or my gf’s.
I think that’s a little extreme. I think it’s prudent to avoid spending too much time with the child, or in the very least avoid implying a romantic connection, until it’s clear the relationship is serious (meaning, you want to get married.) Then you would spend a good deal of time together as a family before tying the knot, and the kid would have to be cool with it. I know some people don’t like allowing their children to have feelings or participate in decision making, but in this case I think it’s absolutely crucial the kid’s on board.
I think in the meantime, seeing the kid once a week or so is reasonable. The danger is if you are there daily, a regular and routine part of the fabric of the child’s life. When the relationship doesn’t work out, that child loses a piece of his or her identity.
I rarely see her child. We planned to go to the park today, (to get some exercise), but now I’m afraid to do even that.
I’ve told my GF that right now I want to play the part of on “uncle”, so to not confuse her child. I’ve had single mother friends… and have spent a LOT more time with their kids than I am right now. Was that wrong?
I think once the child is old enough to understand and give their opinion - like approaching or in their teens, it might be OK. If the child is doing well, is happy and secure, and is in favor of mom finding someone special, sure.
But young children need a LOT of love and attention, and as I said, if their parents are split up, they will need it more. I have been tearing my hair out over my 2yo’s bad behavior (tantrums, violence, etc. - it’s somewhat a developmental stage), and realized she needs more of my attention, and she needs my attention when she’s doing well, not just when she gets in trouble. But meantime, my almost-7yo is really feeling the pain of less attention due to her sister’s needs. I can’t imagine how shoved aside she’d feel if her dad had left and I was leaving her so I could spend time with some guy.
I do think that parents can usefully spend some time away from a kid who’s 2-3. Getting away for a few hours a couple times a week can really help you recharge your batteries, and if your child is in good care and confident you will return, probably no harm done. So theoretically, using that time to date would work. The problem with dating is it tends to trigger a hormonal/emotional state in which it’s very easy to make bad decisions and to put your own wants in front of other people’s needs. So I wouldn’t expect many people to be able to keep things at that casual, rare level for very long.
I know it sounds hard-assed, but really, where is it written that parents have a right to fun and fulfillment and romance? When you decide to become a parent, you sign up to sacrifice a lot. I myself don’t always like it, but I think I have a responsibility to my kids to put my own desires aside when it conflicts with what they need.
It sounds like you’re both aware of the potential issues; that’s more than I can say for most couples. Seriously, use your own judgment. Nobody knows the real situation but you. I think this is worth being cautious about, but not paranoid.
The rule of thumb I was taught (as an intern at a family treatment facility) was one minute of time-out for every year of your kid’s life. Three year old gets 3 minutes, four year old gets 4 minutes, etc.
(Yes I know I’m going to get a karmic punishment for this post)