Dating a girl who's child's out of control. Please help!

What about parents who are together - should they give all their attention to their kids, too?

I have to disagree with this suggestion. Parents should not neglect their kids, but they should not neglect themselves, either. While children need to know that their parent(s) love them and will be there for them, they also need to know that their parents are adult people who are entitled to adult lives.

That doesn’t mean it’s fine for you to play tonsil hockey on the couch while the kid watches Spongebob, but the world does not revolve around children. They need to understand their place in the grand order of things. And they need to function in society, recognizing that other people may sometimes come before them.

My husband and I had babysitters lined up before our daughter was born (non-family sitters, no less!) and we made an effort to get out as a couple so we could be husband and wife as well as mommy and daddy. Our daughter didn’t turn out to be a psycho axe murderer (although the 5th graders she teaches may turn her into one…) My point is, while you’re always a parent, if you don’t take time to be an adult with other adults, you’re doing everyone a disservice.

I have no advice on getting disobedient little tantrum-throwers to simmer down, but I am curious about something: If your lady friend can’t seem to get kid in order, and the kid keeps kicking you, are you going to continue seeing this gal?

As for single parents dating, I think happy mamas make happy children. To expect anyone to completely sacrifice any chance of personal satisfaction in adult relationships because they had children is to set people up for failure and guilt. My friends think I’m harsh for not wanting to live with boyfriends outside of marriage because of my children, but not even dating because of them? I never signed up to become a nun just because I got divorced, and I don’t think any of my children would want me to chain myself to the house for them.

As to the OP, this child’s behavior is a good indicator of your girlfriend’s parenting skills and how life with her could be- chaotic, manipulative, drama-filled. I’m not usually of the SDMB contingent that advises people to dump their SO over stupid little things (she looked at you wrong- dump her, brah!) but in this case, I’m leaning towards it. These things can run very deep, can be or become a severe behavioral pathology, and can be tremendously difficult to manage. It’s hard enough on relationships between the biological parents, much less subsequent SOs. So I guess the answer to what you should do depends on how bad the problem is, and how willing you are to deal with a problem child, which can be a lot more stressful than you might think.

Children do respond differently, and sometimes differently to different forms of discipline. We did the “in your room” timeouts at three, with the door closed, and help calming her down. We also did the “walk away” ones when she was really thrashing.

If mom is afraid she will trash the room or break something, its time to childproof the room. There really shouldn’t be much breakable in a three year old’s room anyway.

Have Mom track - does she tantrum more if she is hungry? If she is tired? If she’s had too much TV? If she hasn’t had enough stimulation? Or are these “spoiled brat” tantrums that appear regardless if she doesn’t get her own way - in which case, Mom needs to stop giving in - and start removing privileges.

Two words of advice - it will get better over time. AND - she needs to nip it in the bud now - no “too young” excuses. These things seem contradictory and they are. Because the tantrums will get better over time, but if she doesn’t nip it in the bud, its the first steps on the path to manipulative and disobedient teenagers - the don’t tantrum - but its worse. Just remember as she holds the bedroom door shut with a wailing kid on the other side - getting your emotions under control and learning restraint and denial are for her own good long term.

Well, that’s excessive to the other extreme. Sure, you make sacrifices to protect and care for children, but if you abandon your entire life outside of being an Überelternteil, what kind of model does that make you for the child as they grow to maturity, and how are you going to be able to let the child naturally detach and develop his or her own independent life if you’ve built your self-image around being a parent?

Not always. There are plenty of narcissistic “happy mammas” who don’t even consider the impact on their children. However, a parent that views their child(ren) as an resented impediment to living a full life rather than a component of it are probably not going to raise healthy, well-adjusted children.

Personally, I think the best people for single parents to date are other single parents. Despite the logistical complications of arranging for two sets of babysitters and, if successful, the ultimate complication of blending two separate families together into a Brady Bunch ideal minus all the real world issues, single parents will have an implicit and sympathetic understanding of a major and complex part of each other’s lives, and will also have the opportunity to view first hand how the other party behaves and response as a parent. The parties will also presumably be more-or-less up to speed on what is required in the way of discipline and sacrifice to be a parent, whereas a non-parent entering into an existing family is likely to always be something of an outsider trying to figure things out. Personally, I don’t date women with children that are not in high school or older because I just have too many reservations about the entire situation and the responsibilities arising from it.

Stranger

Wow. What a mess. The way I see it, your girlfriend is dealing with:

  1. Behavior that is somewhat normal for the age, only is going unchecked.
  2. Her own guilt.
  3. A kid’s sense of upheaval (perhaps her daughter feels that she has to compete with you for her mom’s affections).
  4. Very inconsistent discipline (or lack thereof) in the home.

As a parent, my recommendation would be that first off, there must be consequences for the daughter’s actions and those consequences absolutely must be consistent regardless of who’s watching her - her grandparents or her mom. And those consequences have to happen every single time she misbehaves. So your girlfriend should probably decide on a strategy, then talk with her parents and get their buy-in to enforce it. It will be very difficult at first, especially if this girl has had no discipline in her past and she’s dealing with some changes; however, kids really do need rules. Rules help them learn to control themselves and can help make them more secure, especially when things are changing.

As a personal anecdote, every time something changes in our house - when we had a new baby, when relatives come to visit for more than a few days - our son really begins pushing boundaries. And it’s specifically during those times that rule enforcement becomes extremely important so he knows that, regardless of where he is, what’s happening and who’s around, there is absolutely no excuse that will get him out of consequences for bad behavior.

Our son was around your girlfriend’s daughter’s age when he had his first really bad tantrum (he’s had four major ones I can think of). It lasted three hours. Three miserable hours of him screaming, crying and trying to hit us while we gritted our teeth and calmly informed him, “No hitting or screaming in this house. You need to use your words,” then picked him up, put him back on his timeout chair. Picked him up, put him back on his timeout chair. Picked him up, put him back on his timeout chair. When he finally wound down, we put the timer on for three minutes (I believe the recommendation is one minute for every year of life, though timeouts don’t really start until age two or so) and he finally stayed. When we were done, we reminded him of why he’d been in timeout, made sure he understood, then moved on. There were no lectures, no grudges held - we just moved on with our lives.

Discipline is absolutely the worst part of parenting (for me anyway). It takes a lot of time, involves a monumental amount of patience and I often wish I had earplugs. But you have to do it if you want a kid you and others can live with later. Also, discipline, as mentioned above, doesn’t necessarily mean punishment. In fact, discipline comes from the word “disciple,” or student. When you discipline a kid (or fail to do so), you’re teaching them. If you freak out on them, start screaming at them or hitting them, that shows them that you’re out of control and that losing it is an appropriate response. If you fail to discipline, you’re condoning their behavior.

Oh, and I third the thought that being a parent doesn’t mean that your girlfriend’s needs for adult companionship (romantic or otherwise) should always play second fiddle to her daughter. The way I see it, enjoying parenting also means retaining your own identity. Yeah, you can’t always go out whenever you want and you do have to be more responsible, but at the same time, to avoid resenting your kids, it’s important to have your own interests and spend time with other people doing what you want. She should definitely spend extra one-on-one time with her daughter (negative behavior is often an indicator that your kid needs your attention), but her daughter also needs to understand that her mom is a person with wants or needs of her own, too.

Oh my god, if I’d done that my children would have missed out on a wonderful stepfather who provided common sense and stability in a male role model while their father was being … well, himself. And I would have missed out on 17 years and counting of a wonderful relationship.

Children deserve our time and attention, but giving them ALL of our time and attention is bad for both children and parents.

FWIW, I figured if she is a single parent, she is working full time and has a life other than motherhood. Frankly, I don’t find a lot of identity and fulfillment in “Hey, I’m this guy’s wife!” so I don’t see the necessary connection to self-image.

I do agree that each person has to assess where their needs end and their wants begin. Forgoing something that is necessary to your sanity doesn’t do your children any favors.

It’s just that so many people seem to view children more as pets than people, and forget about what their children go through because of the parents’ decisions. So many people just live life wondering how they can make themselves feel good.

And I don’t want to give the impression that I stomp around like Dr. Laura with a hardon, yelling at single parents who date. I’ve got an acquaintance who has three children from her first marriage, and she got married and had a new baby within a year of her divorce. Her kids are having emotional difficulties - imagine that! (Bonus - they are on WIC, and she’s talking about having another baby.) And I haven’t said anything!

Make sure that’s not what’s happening. It’s a very natural thing to pay more attention to her when she’s doing something wrong and pay less attention when everything’s going OK. The problem with that is that a lot of kids, if they can’t get positive attention, will settle for negative. Some kids would rather be yelled at than ignored, so they behave badly to get attention that they don’t get when they’re behaving well.

IAABT (I am a behavior therapist), and one thing I don’t see mentioned here is the question: why is she tantrumming? For a behavior to have an appropriate consequence, you must know why the child is performing the behavior.

The four functions of behavior are:

  1. Attention
  2. Tangible (she wants something)
  3. Escape (she wants to get out of something)
  4. Sensory (she’s doing it because it feels good)

Now, she’s probably not having a tantrum because it feels good, so that leaves the first three. Ask your girlfriend what usually sets off a tantrum. Is it when nobody is paying attention to her, when somebody tells her she can’t have something, or when she wants to escape a demand (such as “clean up your toys”).

Time-outs are extremely ineffective for escape behavior (and this is one major mistake Supernanny makes). Think about it: a child refuses to clean up her toys, so she gets time-out. Great, she thinks, now I don’t have to clean up my toys! (Or, at the minimum, she gets to delay cleaning up toys.)

For attention and tangible behaviors, time-out can be effective. The important thing is to not deliver the attention (no talking to or comforting the child) or the tangible (don’t give them the thing they are screaming for). In my agency at least, we never use time-out. Walking away is just as effective and you avoid the cat-and-mouse game that sometimes happens with the child escaping from the time-out area. The whole process of attempting to put and keep a child in time-out can have the unintended effect of giving them more attention for their inappropriate behavior.

Once again, I haven’t read all the responses. I know her kid gets destructive when put in her room, and starts to break things, and pound on walls. Since she lives at her parents and can do quite a bit of damage she faces. Plus, they share the same room, so it’s not just her toys she can break. It’s a tough situation

That adds another level of complication, sharing a room with mom at the grandparents’ house.

My brother and I lived with mom at her parents’ house when we were about 3 and 6, while my dad was overseas. I don’t remember much about it, except that my grandpa was the authority figure, not mom.

The little girl’s gotta be confused, with mom trying to maintain some discipline and the grandparents being rather lax.

You have my sympathy.

I’m taking one step at a time. I do want her child to be safe and happy regardless.

I will ask my GF about this. Thanks for bring up something I didn’t even think to ask about.

It doesn’t seem like a good thing that they share a room. I wish there was something that could be done about that. She’s really trying to make things work. I see her tonight, and we’re going to read through this thread together.

I’m trying to help in any way that I can, without stepping over the line. I see us being friends if things don’t work out romantically. I’m sure there are 101 reasons why we might have a bitter breakup, but I know that all me ex-girlfriends are now friends of mine. Plus I knew her a while before we started dating. I feel for her and the situation she’s in. That’s the whole point of this thread. I just knew she could use some good advise.

I also like the idea of staying consistent with disciplinarian measures. I’m not sure there’s much of that between her and her parents. The child should have a good idea of what’s going to happen if she behaves poorly OR behaves well. She needs consistency.

Thanks, the little one has my sympathy. I don’t know where my GF and I are headed, but I still want what’s best for her little one. :confused:

It makes things much more complicated when the grandparents aren’t behind the parent. I have a friend whose 4 year old was regularly watched by his grandmother. The grandmother doesn’t believe in discipline (it is a complicated story) and would even criticized my friend for being to “harsh” when she would try to discipline her son. The boy was pretty out of control. Eventually, my friend had to stop leaving her son with his grandmother because the consistency wasn’t happening. To be clear, he still sees his Gma, she just isn’t left in charge. My friend had to start paying for daycare, but her son behaves so much better then he did before.

Consistency is so important with children. I think the number one thing, whatever you decide to do, is to get everyone who watches the child on board with it. This is SO important.

If she acts like this then run.

[URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nojWJ6-XmeQ”]Out Of Control/URL]

If she acts like this then run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nojWJ6-XmeQ

well, you can date without introducing your kids to the guy. I raised my kids by myself since they were toddlers, and I did date, but I never introduced anyone to my kids as a boyfriend. Sometimes they met and hung out with my friend so and so, but I was careful to keep things platonic in front of the kids, and they met all my friends so it wasn’t a big deal.

But I also made a point of making sure I had time away from the kids, vacations or evenings or whatever, so I could maintain a relationship without dragging them into it.

Worked fine. Maybe I was lucky that I spent time with people who agreed to those terms, but I’m talking about only a few relationships that each lasted for many years, and I never had any problems.

Get a small spritzer, the kind you find in beauty stores.

Fill it with water.

Squirt the squirt, right in the face, every time a tantrum is thrown.

It works for cats.

Dad to three young children here.

Spanking works wonderfully, but it’s not an option for you. Sadly, there’s not much of anything you can do in this situation. I suppose you could advise her on what to do, but she probably won’t listen, won’t care, or feel insulted.

Suffice to say, a strong but loving mother and father is the best environment for raising well-behaved children. You’re not her father, and she’s probably not a strong mother. No wonder the child is acting up.

There’s really nothing you can do.

In general (IMO) as a single dad the notions to have (more or less) no dating while you have a young child are simply asinine. People are people and promoting single parent households on the assumption that the child might be traumatized, or that it’s too complicated, confusing and icky to have men (or women) around who aren’t bio-daddy or bio-mommy is so drama queeny it’s just silly.

The perfect nuclear family is a fantasy these days. Good for you if you can find and maintain it, but single parents in the real world need and want personal, emotional and sexual connectedness. It’s part of life and kids are in it. Men, women AND children need to learn how to make emotional accommodations for people entering and leaving their lives, and there are certainly commonsensical guidlines for when you introduce someone you are dating to your kids.

Having said this, your new girlfriend might be quite sweet, loving etc. with mad lovemaking skillz, but she does not sound like a particularly effective parent if she’s behaving as you describe. This might not be a big deal now while you are the blush of initial attraction, but it will be a huge deal later on down the line as people who are tentative and unassertive parents tend to have a lot of “out of control” scenarios even as the kids get older. Kids manipulate weak parents mercilessly and the step-SO usually gets squeezed in this battle of wills.

Date her and have fun if you can avoid being hit by the kid, but think long and hard if THIS is the person you want to live with, because I will guarantee you if she doesn’t really want to the be the disciplinarian that task will fall to you, and non-disciplinarian bio-parents who have handed the task off, often have a bad habit of not backing the “bad-cop” disciplinarian step-parent when rules need to be enforced.