Emphasis mine. In many Asian cultures, public display of affection is simply not done. Lovers don’t even hold hands in public, much less kiss. Try kissing her in private.
These above would be my questions exactly. As they are Mrs. Siam Sam’s, whom I just asked.
In general, it is agreed in Thailand that nice girls do not get into very deep relationships before marriage. However, that is changing with the younger generation, and the older Thais are blaming Western influence for this. Now, this girl of yours has been in the US for 10 years, so you’d think maybe she’d act more American. But we know a Thai lady who is a business-administration professor at a major university in California; she has spent something like 20 years in America and other Western countries, but she still maintains the more traditional Thai values. In fact, she said once that a farang (Westerner) tried to “put the moves on her” (my wording), and she didn’t know how to react.
As related elsewhere, Mrs. Siam Sam and I met as graduate students in Hawaii. She was already in her 30s. I went through the same uncertainty for a while as to whether we were friends or more. One evening, while sitting on Waikiki Beach watching a beautiful sunset, I decided to make a move. Feeling the time was right – and we, too, had been having “friendly” dates for months, more than three, I’ll clue ya – I leaned over to give her a little kiss. Before I could make contact, she said in a little shocked voice: “What are you doing?” That stopped me in my tracks. But we did talk later and confirmed we were more than friends. And now we’re married.
But back to your girl. Overt displays of affection are very much frowned upon in Thai culture. But again, the newer generation often has different ideas. And of course, when I lived up in the North, there was one little town I was familiar with in which they espoused these cultural ideals, but when you got to know the town and people, it was a regular Peyton Place! All sorts of affairs were going on. So there’s not a one-size-fits-all answer.
If you really like this girl, don’t rush things. (Many would say waiting three months already is not rushing things, but believe me when I say you may need longer with a Thai.) See how it develops. We both think she’s interested in you based on what you’ve said. At some point, maybe have a (very) private discussion about your feelings and how mutual they may be.
In fact, Mrs. Siam Sam is standing here right now telling me yes, tell her now how you feel and ask her how she feels, but in a private setting.
- She’s in her late 30s.
- Multiple post-graduate degrees.
- Family of doctors.
- She moved for school.
- I know she has sisters, and I believe she’s the youngest. I’m not sure on married status.
- n/a
- Nope - they’re in Bangkok.
Additionally, she also spends her time with a group of Thai women, who I believe are a bit older. There are younger people in the group as well that splits off with occasionally.
Getting her alone has proven…difficult. Whenever I’ve suggested I cook or grill for us, it’s treated almost as a joke. She did, however, try to plan a dinner on Friday for us at her place, but her friends wisked her away out of town for the weekend.
It’s possible that they don’t see you as a suitable partner for her. We know a bit about her background, but not yours. Surely if they come from a family of doctors, they might expect her to pair up with someone better off and more educated than you are. Other cultures look at “feelings” as secondary matters when matchmaking.
Her friends? Oh, they seem eager to meet me. The trip out of town had been planned for a while, but we had both forgotten about it, and they made a strong push. The only reason she went is because I had a friend in from out of town who I hadn’t seen in a while.
Munch,
Thai people are all about the money. They love money and that is not a bad thing if you also love making money and giving it all to your spouse and her family to have her. She may be a hard worker herself as most Thai people are but it will be nothing but money, money, money that she will care about. My Mom worked with a lot of them and they send all their money back home to their families.
I saw a documentary of some poor guy that went to Thailand and was killed. They finally found out it was his Thai wife that set it up so she could cash in on his life insurance. She had her first husband killed also. Thailand is in a uproar and the police don’t investigate homicides like in the US. I wouldn’t be caught “dead” in Thailand right now.
She won’t marry beneath her so unless you are a doctor or independently wealthy I would not waste my time. They don’t marry for love but for money and social status. Culturally they are very different from us. So if she was a poor Thai you might be a catch but where she is a rich Thai you would have to be richer then her and her family.
Ask yourself, Do I really want to be a part of this culture? Do I really want to be a wallet for a foreign woman?
Out of curiosity why is there such a whore/Madonna split in Thai culture? On one hand I hear all these stories about a big chunk of Thai women being sexually promiscuous and predatory, actively hunting for naive men with money, and on the other hand you have this near nun/vestal virgin like behavior.
Do Thai men (as opposed to westerners) of dating age practice abstinence and wait patiently for “good” Thai girls to decide whether they like them or not, or do they pursue sexually available women?
The whore/madonna split is still present in the West. I get the impression that the more women are seen as equal to men and the weaker gender roles are, the less you get that whore/madonna split.
In traditional societies, there are strong social rules concerning what a woman is supposed to be and to do. You either abide by those mores (madonna) or you acquire a social low status (whore). If you already have a whore reputation, why not make the most of it?
Also, the more traditional the society, the more it reflects the views of misogynistic men who want to have sex with women easily yet look down on women who have sex with men easily.
Others can offer more information, but I think most non-Western countries are very much like Thailand regarding the whore/madonna split.
Don’t wear a red shirt or a yellow shirt until you know where she stands.
Of course, things like this never happen in the West.
Okay, I’ll bite: Want to share why that’s significant?
Of course, generally speaking, it’s always been a bad idea to wear a red shirt, especially on away missions 
The two major factions involved in the current unpleasantness in Thailand identify themselves by the color of shirts they wear: red and yellow. See Siam Sam’s thread in MPSIMS for details.
Red: Group that wants to overthrow the government.
Yellow: Government supporter.
Astro, on rereading your post, I see that you were mainly interested in the whore part. I don’t know why exchaging money for sex is so widely done in Thailand, whether it’s in whorehouses or by hooking in naive men with money.
Hi Perciful. I’d like to invite you to a great Thai restaurant!
You probably won’t want to come, as I’m sure your disdain for Thais extends to their food, but in case you want to join me, it’s called The BBQ Pit.
Everybody is welcome to come too. There’s plenty of room. I’ll order up some beef satay and spring rolls.
I talked to a friend who has some experience with Thailand (he lived there for a bit but not long and has dated Thai women)
He said that all women are different so it is hard to generalize (duh) but that, in general, Thai women can have issues with public displays of affection.
He said go for the kiss in private and, if she shies away, then you are probably in the friend zone or dealing with a very conservative woman - either way you should seriously reconsider pursuing a relationship with her.
Take his ideas for what they are worth.
There are golddiggers of both sexes and every orientation in every culture. It’s a sad but true fact of human nature. In economically desperate areas, the percentage may go up as otherwise decent people are driven to extremes to keep their families going.
I think if Munch were involved with such a person he would not be having the issues he is. “Bar girls” do not play hard to get for long. And given her family background and education level, I hardly think she’s economically desperate.
Munch: I’m not an expert of Thai culture, but I’d suggest that you will know you’re where you want to be only when you’ve met her parents, or at least some older relatives. And given the current political situation that’s not going to be safe to do for a while. Try to think through your conversation about the political uproar with her; did she mention how unfortunate it is that travel is dangerous? could she have been trying to give you a clue to her thinking?
And if you haven’t already, you need to consider the (high) possibility that premarital sex will be out of the question.
A small note of encouragement - it would behoove you to learn more about the situation in her homeland. I know squat, and have no close Thai friends, but even I recognized the shirt color reference. It’s just part of caring to pay attention to what matters to the other person.
Most Thais are a lot LESS promiscuous than American or European women. The Thais you hear about this are the relatively small percent that are mainly coming from a certain subsection of Thailand where they’ve become rich by “dating” western guys.
I found it hilarious, when we lived in Thailand and went on a weekend “offsite” training on Thai culture. One of the women in the group was a “nice Irish Catholic girl”* who asked why all Thais had such low morals. Oh, and she was living with her boyfriend without being married. Many Thais would consider this to be immoral, at least Thais of a certain status or generation. Everyone is so quick to judge based on the small section that they might be exposed to.
To give an example, albeit somewhat dated, but when I lived in Thailand (2000-2001) I had a good friend at work named Kanda. She would tell me little tidbits about her boyfriend. I asked her once, to get a rise, if he was a good kisser (they’d been an item for many months at the time). She replied, with genuine shock, “Oh no, we haven’t kissed yet!” When I asked why, she told me, with a very straight face, that she didn’t want to go to hell. Many Thais of my wife’s generation would consider most anything more than holding hands as scandalous prior to marriage. And even holding hands in public used to be frowned upon, although as with most younger generations with media access, things are changing rapidly.
*Not Irish-American, actual Irish
I’ll just say this is a pretty ignorant post, based on a small selection of people. I hope you get to meet some real Thais someday that don’t fit your prejudice. They tend to be kind, generous and non-judgmental. Although depending on who you know or consort with I can see how a foreigner could get the wrong impression.
Oh, I dunno. There are a lot like that. But then, my wife’s family certainly had more money than I did, and that was never a problem, although they were not what you would call wealthy. Maybe upper middle class. Hadn’t ever really thought about it, to tell you the truth. When my future wife was in the US, they sent her money, not vice versa. (Well, not serious money. She was on leave from her government post and still drawing full salary.) Stories of being offed by your Thai wife are legion over here, I’ve even posted a few of them on the Board, but mine hasn’t killed me … yet. When it does happen, it is usually the wives from a poorer background; certainly not the ones studying for a doctorate in Indiana and coming from a family of doctors.
Yeah, that is a good question. They do often seem to be saints or whores with very little middle ground. There’s also another distinct “type,” the Spinster. Ladies who go their entire lives without once becoming romantically involved with anyone. The wife’s two sisters are like that. Two of her cousins, too. Nice ladies, but they have simply devoted themselves to other pursuits and have never been interested in romance. Just about every office will have at least one or two like that. With them, really, don’t even try; you won’t get anywhere.
Also, many Western men’s only interaction with Thai ladies is often the naughty areas, like Pattaya, Patpong and Soi Cowboy. The girls are lots of fun, no denying that, but hardly representative of Thai womanhood in general. I’m constantly amazed at the yokels who come over here and think they are. I think the record for marrying a bargirl is something like six hours after meeting her, that I’ve heard of.
Thai men? With them, it’s Brothel City, Baby! They’re expected to visit hookers freely and often have a second wife or two. However, this is oddly going by the wayside too, with the newer generation. It doesn’t seem to be quite as prevalent as before. Tsk tsk, no resepct for tradition!
My answers above to both posters above may seem like a bit of an overgeneralization in some regards, but then Thailand tends to lend itself to overgeneralization. It’s a difficult place to describe to someone who’s never been here.
Yes, don’t get caught up in the shirt wars. I think both sides are filth myself, but the red shirts are definitely the more evil.
Anyway, Mrs. Siam Sam is again standing here telling me to tell the OP to initiate a heart-to-heart talk with her in a private setting. And that doesn’t mean a table alone in a restaurant; it means somewhere with no one around. And no public displays of affection. It was only after a few years of marriage my wife finally became bold enough to hold my hand in public. Really.
EDIT: The wife asks how you met your girl. Are both of you students? At work?