Would you prefer that things had ended badly with every single ex, severing contact? Sometimes being friendly with exes is a good thing.
And being a virgin at 22 is really no big deal, Soap . Seriously. When I read stats about average teens having sex at 16, I’m pretty surprised. None of my friends are conservative, religious, unattractive (I’m serious. There’s something in the water), etc. but I’d say their average age of first sexual encounter is about 19-20. In some ways, things like group dates inhibit intercourse. At the same time, people put too much emphasis on their ‘first time,’ as if everything will be downhill after that point. Quite the opposite.
Soapbox Monkey, just so you know, the way around the hostility to dating is to ask a woman if she wants to do something without turning it into a formal occassion. Something along the lines of “Let’s go get a drink,” or “Come down to XXXX tomorrow when I’m there.” Yes, you’ll still have to compete for her attention if she takes you up on it.
I guess I still date the oldfashioned way-I am even old fashioned enough to have allowed my parents to set me up with people. I’ve only had 2 of the “modern hooking-up dating” situations in my life-first when I was on a campaign with a bunch of kids my age and second when I was in law school with one of my classmates.
My current boyfriend is the relative of someone I’m friendly with-we got to know each other as friends, met, went out on dates and are now in a serious relationship. Across the country from each other, even. It’s an expensive relationship-good thing we both have nice jobs. He’s a bit younger than me, actually, but has only ever dated the old-fashioned way.
Has hooking up progressed to intercourse then? I’m 28 and to me it generally means “well, we did everything but have sex because we were drunk and horny.” The 2 times I established a relationship that way there was no sex during the “hooking up part”-more along the lines of a gradual increase in intimacy but the initial overcoming of shyness was fueled by alcohol.
I think the modern hookup dating seems more common among people in an academic setting and I resolved VERY early on never to date another law student from my class.
I’m 28, so I might be pushing the high end of the bell curve in regards to the age the OP is polling. Nevertheless, what she describes sounds to me like the way loose people might end up together. I still ask girls out on dates, and these dates tend to be of the dinner-and-a-movie variety. Granted, most of the girls I’ve dated I’ve met in a social setting before we go out, but not once has “we got drunk and hooked up” been the answer to an inquiry of how my girlfriend and I met.
I’m not entirely certain about the (relative) old-timers who claim that “it has always been this way.” As far as I am aware, those in this thread were born late enough to go through adolescence after the “liberation” of the 60s. If there’s anyone who matured in the '50s or earlier, I’m quite interested in their input. I think it’s equally likely that the '60s and later were anomalous, and that those in this thread, while still affected by the legacy of that movement, represent the beginning of a swinging back of mores towards a more “conservative” - if only relatively - position.
“Modern society?” I’m no historian, but I’m pretty sure people have always liked fucking.
Why does it have to be intimate instead of just fun or something else? I wouldn’t want it to be anything other than intimate, personally, and I waited about as long as you did for similar reasons - that and shyness - but that view isn’t superior to all others.
How do you know so much about what other people think and do?
How do you know it won’t? If you’re proud of your choice, stick to it and stop worrying so much about other people. You aren’t the only 22-year-old virgin in the world.
You sure that’s why you’re angry?
I’m only a couple of years older than you and I was a virgin at 20. And you don’t know what your partner will be like.
You are grossly overgeneralizing. Sex has a great deal of value to a lot of people, myself included. Also, sex-as-physical-fun does not preclude precaution or conscientiousness, and I don’t know what ever gave you that idea.
What you don’t seem to understand is that meaningful sex and purely physical sex can and do coexist in this world. What starts out as purely physical can later become meaningful for the same couple, and believe it or not, vice versa. The very same person can be in the mood for meaningful sex at one time and just want a good fuck at another. If you’re lucky, you can get both from the same partner.
Sigh I don’t know, dude. Seems to me you’re making a tragedy where none exists so you’ll have an excuse to be emo about being a virgin. My vote is, stop judging people who do things differently from you, do your own thing, and don’t worry about it. Either that, or embrace sex as a natural release for human beings who are attracted to each other and realize the only guilt involved is self-inflicted, whichever.
I was a virgin until I was 24. It wasn’t because I was weeping over the sluttish tendencies of my peers. I wasn’t exactly saving myself for anything either; I simply hadn’t met anyone I wanted to have sex with, and I didn’t want to have sex just so I could say I wasn’t a virgin anymore. I was perfectly happy with my choice and I didn’t care if everyone else around me was having hot monkey sex every night without me. They did their thing, I did mine, and everyone was happy.
You know, it is just sex, in that I don’t need to be in love with every man I sleep with. Sometimes sex isn’t the intimate binding together of two people who were meant to live the rest of their lives as soul mates in everlasting harmony. Sometimes what’s good is just the physical pleasure. The best single sexual encounter I’ve ever had is with a man I haven’t seen since. That doesn’t mean it has NO value for me. I value sex quite a lot, as a matter of fact. The more sex I have, the more I value it and the knowledge it gives to me of my body, how it works, what I like, what others like, and how I can help both myself and my partner get the most pleasure out of it. Valuing it also means taking precautions, and responsibility. Of course I’ve considered the consequences. It would be very stupid not to.
I get the feeling you’re expecting that if you lose your virginity to someone you love, your first time will be The Most Unbelievable Experience Ever To Be Had Anywhere. You know, my first time was with someone who cared, and still cares, a great deal for me and who I cared, and still care, a great deal for. We waited for about a month after we had started dating before we had sex for the first time. It was nothing special. It was quite short, and a little uncomfortable, and he was so nervous he had a bit of trouble performing, and I was too nervous to really be able to do anything about it, and there was a whole lot of awkward laughter and joking. (It went a whole lot better the following five years.)
Meaningful sex certainly does exist for people in their early 20’s. It’s just not the ONLY kind of sex that exists for people in their early 20’s. I mean, I was in a relationship for five years just now, placing a sizeable chunk of the meaningful sex I’ve had in my life smack dab in the middle of my early 20’s (I’m 23 now).
The 22-year-old girl just looking to “hook up” could also be a virgin. I know this kind of clashes with the whole “meaningful sex” thing I just said, but to some people, virginity isn’t this huge hang-up that shadows their entire lives and just won’t go away because it has to be given to the One True Person that is worthy of it. Some just kind of want to get it over with, like me. Virginity means different things to different people.
As many people have said before in this thread, our generation is not the only one which likes to fuck (evidence: we’re here now). People have been “hooking up” pretty much since the dawn of time. Like nevermore said, part of the guilt connected to the sexual act is connected more to social conventions and/or religious restrictions than to some innate wrongness with copulation. Sex is in and of itself not wrong.
I’m glad this thread came along. I think I scared off two seemingly promising prospects by asking them out on “dates”. Looks like that’s out of fashioned and I should just be “hooking-up” my way into people’s hearts. No problem for me, that’s what I was doing before - I just thought I should be changing my ways…
Also, ftr, Soapbox, my first time was almost exactly what auRa described. Your first time is gonna be short and awkward at best; PAINFUL and awkward at worst (if you’re a girl), no matter who your partner is. I’m not saying you shouldn’t discriminate (I definitely did; we were as close to in love as two teenagers could be), but I wouldn’t go into it with any heady notions. (Hint: it helps to have a sense of humor about it!)
pizzabrat, it’s not binary… you could also just hang out, without the pressure of formal dating, and see where things go. Kinda like “Man, I’m hungry. You hungry? Let’s go grab some food,” or “Hey, I’m going to this thing this weekend. Wanna go?” The key is emphasizing the activity, not the fact that you’ll be together. “Wanna go out sometime” gives the impression that it doesn’t matter what you do, as long as it’s together, which can creep people out and make things awkward. This is what I did when I was single; I was never one of the hookers-up.
Thanks for all the replies, people! This certainly has been enlightening. As for those who express dismay at the “hooking-up” system . . . can I ask why? Assuming that hooking up does not always equal sex, doesn’t it seem like the system affords more freedom to both partners? Let’s say you go on a date, and don’t really click with the person . . . breaking it off is a harder to do than if you just hook up with someone. I just recently shed some of my religious views and have decided to take a more liberal attitude to dating/sex and it’s really quite liberating. I don’t get the advantages of the dating system.
On a slightly different tack, I wonder if in the current system, there is more leeway to be jerkish/selfish. In this thread , Kythereia asks whether she should continue to go out with a man who has a problem with being late. I expressed my surprise, nay, shock, that that would be enough to cause anyone to break up with anyone. I feel like the guys I deal with in general are waaay more self-centered and thoughtless than that. For instance, last guy I kind of dated basically said he would call me a week ago to let me know about some plans we had tentatively made. Didn’t call, and hasn’t since. Which is pretty much what I expected; I NEVER expect anyone I’m not in a serious relationship with to call, and am rather surprised when they do. However, if he did call today, for example, and wanted to get drinks, I’d probably go with it, if I had nothing better to do, cause his behavior is pretty par for the course, from what I have seen.
Part of the reason is that it’s easier to know if someone is (romantically) interested in you in formal dating. If you ask them out on a second or third date and they agree, then they probably are, at least to some degree. With the hooking-up system, it’s much more ambiguous…Did they agree to get drinks with you as a friend, or as a potential mate?
This is why internet dating can work really well. You make it clear you are on there looking for just sex, or only for a relationship. That takes some of that natural but annoying ambiguity out of it. Then you put some time into talking to people before you meet them, and are clear on what your situations are, if you have things in common, common goals. When it’s time to meet them, it’s much more clear-cut than it is in the amorphous and often disorienting world of dating and hooking up. When I met my fiance, I felt like so much crap had been gotten out of the way, so when we happily found we were attracted to each other as well as compatible in other areas, we went straight to a real relationship without all that aggravating doubt and sussing out. Works for me. Might for you.
As I mentioned in other threads…I stopped caring if I find an SO or not a while ago; I treat anyone new I’m around as a potential friend, and nothing more. That search, by the way, was one of the easier things I’ve given up. A side benefit of giving it up, is that it’s very easy for me to ignore all subtle messages of attraction, which makes the “hookup” dating scene easy to play…I’m only going out with them as friends, not as a potential mate. Unless, of course, they come out and beat me over the head with it, but that won’t actually happen.
As for the rest of your post; I agree with you. Online dating, like ‘formal’ dating, generally makes things less ambiguous. Of course, the female to male ratio in online dating sucks for the males. The last time I checked (out of curiosity) there were about 350 girls within 25-30 miles of me between okcupid, pleantyoffish, and lavalife, and around 600 guys.
Giving up for a while is probably a sane thing to do if the whole thing is really getting you down and making you bitter. Being in a relationship (and just cruising for sex) get tiresome if you’re consistently not getting what you want. I bet you meet someone when you’re ready.
You have to do some work to meet women on one of those sites-- send messages, IM with people, actively look. If you’re well-spoken, not hideous, and have some inkling how to talk to people, you can do it. It is work, though. You have to sort through people, check your messages, make an effort. My fiance found that he was besieged by women on there, and got lots of offers for all kinds of things, and dated several women he met online before he met me. He said it actually changed his views on women, that he had no idea so many women were so desperate and so willing to put their wishes right out there. YMMV, he is pretty damn cute and had awesome pictures of himself on there, a hilarious profile and a great persona that came across well online and in person.
It isn’t making me bitter or getting me down, I just don’t care. I don’t need or want an SO (anymore), but I’m also not opposed to having one. Oh, and I didn’t mean I’d temporarily given up, I meant permanently; until I make some fundamental changes to my personality, changes which I don’t see any reason to make, I won’t take up searching again.
Of course…good pictures, a funny profile, and a great persona will help your chances My point was just that men in the online dating game are in the vast majority, so if you don’t have good pictures, a funny profile, or a great persona, you’re probably not going to have much luck.
Who can’t spell, only changes his underwear once a week, and has written a will that leaves all his worldly possessions to his oldest dog. So it’s actually looking pretty good for you, Yag Rannavach.
You think I’m joking, don’t you? Would that I were.
You are far from alone. I am “old” at 37, but I’ve been teaching 18-20 year olds for the last six years, and I have been quite struck with the number of of them who are disenchanted with the hook-up culture they live in. It’s not a topic I broach, either; it’s a topic they bring up, again and again on when asked to write about something that bothers them. And no, they’re not religious types, either. Just kids who look at their freinds who hook up, watching what happens, and expressing unease with the whole thing.
Given that pretty much every civilized society in human history has regarded sex as something of great emotional and even spiritual importance, you have some justification for looking askance at those who treat it as no more meaningful than taking a shit.
My point was just that men in the online dating game are in the vast majority, so if you don’t have good pictures, a funny profile, or a great persona, you’re probably not going to have much luck.