Yeah, yeah…but I still prefer seeing a woman in t-shirt & boxers with no/worn makeup & bedhead hair at 6:30 am as she wanders into the kitchen where I’m whipping up my famous French Toast & mimosas. Really. And not just because she had her way with me a few hours before.
whew…I feel a different thread coming on…
Thanks for the nice words, despite a rocky start. I actually have visited this site before and have thought about joining just because I usually enjoy even just reading the discussions.
Rex,
Now that sounds like an ideal date. 
Malacandra,
First, thanks for the luck. I agree we all have our own struggles, and mostly I just want to find a partner to help share the highs and lows with in the journey of life so to speak. I don’t want a competition for who has it harder, and I don’t even want fancy things. It’s nice to be thought of and appreciated, but I don’t need a fancy gift for that, just something that shows thought and effort (I actually think the best gifts usually come in the simple gestures), just as I’d want to show gestures of appreciation to someone I cared about. I just want someone who will be there for me during the hard times and who I can be there for too. Again, merci for the bonne chance.
Celyn,
I think I do become over analytical when I go out to dinner or a date. I always worry about how to gracefully offer to pay my part of the dinner. I always do it, and probably doesn’t come out as akward as I think, but it always feels akward. I don’t think it makesme less willing to do so, just nervous about what to do exactly. I’m willing to pay anytime (although being in job transition lately hasn’t helped being able to, or figuring out what I’m able to). Part of the akwardness though is I don’t know dating etiquette all that well. I really do want to be fair, and to make the other person feel comfortable and good about the experience. I tend to worry about things like that in general. I overanalyze most social experiences which tends to lend to my shyness and akwardness at times.
I think I will stick around. I have found it to be all in all to be a really good board with pretty nice people that have some really interesting discussions that for the most part stay on topic without generating into a slingfest.
Shodan,
Thanks for the welcome.
My rule of thumb I’ve come to the conlusion of for dating in general is that whoever asks the other person out should pay just because then they can gage how much they want and can afford to spend. As the dating progresses hopefully the comfort level increases and you can talk about those type of things together. I really am not a tally type person. For one thing I’d have to be more organized to be that type of person.
I am a more natural girl in that the less time I have to fuss the happier I am, but I agree that men don’t sometimes realize the cost that can go into a natural look if you aren’t born with naturally beautifully thick hair for example. Yes I have a slight hair complex. Is the first step admittal? It tends to want to lie there and break at the slightest stress. My sister got the thick hair genes, the type that would go through a hurricane and look “wind tossed” where as I would have more of the drowned rat look going on. When I get the expensive haircut, the “get up in the morning look” looks a lot better, although even then some funny things can be going on on occasion. Not trying to make a point about dating expenses here, because my dating conclusion on that front is above, just agree that the natural look many men idealize takes more effort than they may realize.
Hi Innisfree ,
Please accept yet another welcome to the SDMB.
Why not make a virtue of the fact that you are happiest with minimal or no primping and just do that, rather than trying to get all dolled up for a date? Most of the guys are saying they like the natural look, and that they get turned off by somebody who looks like they are trying too hard. Besides, your level of happinesss and comfort will get conveyed as you talk and interact with your date, probably making the experience better for both of you.
I find a lot of people try to make the best impression possible on a first date, and then gradually relax and show the real person as time goes on. I always thought that was a little silly, and was happier (back in my dating days) starting off showing myself as I am, so that no false expectations were raised and we didn’t have to go through a reacquaintance face.
oops, that should have been … reacquaintance phase. :smack:
I’ve seen women “get ready”. Many many times. The plain fact is that there is no significant difference between the beginning of that process and its delayed end. At least the last 40-50% of the process is spent performing some abstract vague activity that yields no visible results.
Hubby definitely prefers no makeup at all. Not even ‘natural’. Why? He’s got a weird phobia of lipstick/gloopy/sticky stuff. He can put up with me wearing foundation, eye makeup and powder, but won’t kiss me if I’ve got lippy on. And you look odd with the top half of your face done up but the bottom half nude, so I don’t bother.
The OP:
Insofar as I do not date women who do makeup, do odd things to their hair, or invest in clothes, any of these things to a markedly greater extent than I do, she can expect to split the bill.
Women have to deal with periods and PMS and UTIs and whatnot, but the tradeoff is not that the boys pay for the dates but that she, as a woman, gets to directly gestate life and bring it forth, or, under other circumstances, make the lif\e /death decision to terminate the pregnancy.
Tell your friend to grow up and act like a woman.
Well that’s you. Pam still sells more issues of Playboy when she’s on the cover than any other model - SOMEBODY likes her well enough.
Part of the reason Pam sells so well when she covers Playboy is that she represents a fantasy ideal that many men appreciate for a stroke session, but don’t tend to find attractive in a real-life setting. Sure, there’s plenty of guys out there who like her, but many more who wouldn’t say she’s their ideal, she’s just another pair of tits to ogle.
And when a man says “I prefer the natural look of a woman who does not wear makeup”, you might consider that he really means it, rather than that he is fooled by the effort a woman puts in to applying makeup that he does not like. Believe it or not, most people, including most men, are not stupid.
Some men like women to wear makeup. Some men like women to wear only minimal makeup. Some men don’t like women to wear makeup. How about dressing and wearing makeup for yourself, in a manner that you prefer, rather than dressing for what you think that men might like?
And how about: Some men appreciate a woman who can wear makeup sometimes or none sometimes. A woman who can wear runway fashions for a night on the town or jeans and a t-shirt kicking around on the weekend. Some do go for variety and not just a routine look all the time.
It was mentioned that hair or makeup or clothing should not be noticed.
Sometimes true but it can also be nice for either men or women to hear “Wow your hair looks great!”
or “Where did you find that shirt?!”
sigh
ok here’s how it goes.
You are on the first few dates. The man pays. ALWAYS. The woman can offer to split it as a gesture of not being a money grubbing ho. The man politely refuses her offer, picks up the bill and moves on with the date.
The woman is required to make herself look presentable - nice clothes, hair, some light makup. Basically your job is to make yourself look as attractive as possible, not to look like a clown or a Kabuki doll.
The man also should make himself look as good as possible. Shave and put on clean clothes at least.
That’s basically it. If you plan on going on dates bringing bizare concepts to the table like Dutch treat, dressing like a frump because it’s comfortible or applying your fringe socio-political beliefs to the dating dynamic, have a good time being alone.
Well I have to say I was quite astounded by the amount of money required for basic “upkeep” women have. Toes and nails + hair + skin care can add up to quite a bit of money every month. Those “basic” beauty products, etc…
So it is a bit unfair to women ? Sure. All things equal including salary that would be unfair. The problem with expecting men to pay up a bit more is that brings all sorts of "compensation" expectations... like women accepting sex even if they aren't all that interested in it.
When I started dating my ex-GF she earned only slightly less than I did, but she was paying some extra installments from the car she had bought. So I felt it was more reasonable that during dates that I pay a bit more... though we usually split bills or alternated who payed. Since she was a bit on the tight budget I made sure I got the bill more than my usual share. Once her tight spot things were 50% 50% again.
As for dressing up, etc... its okay to have a "casual" dates. No fussy clothing. I like seeing a woman all dressed up and pretty... but its not all important. Makeup also is a bit of a hassle... it makes my nose twitch. So we like seeing our GF's all dressed up... but its ok withouth it too !In my much-less-than-vast dating experience, back when dinosaurs still walked the earth, it was always assumed that I paid for everything. In my current relationship, sometimes I pay, sometimes she pays, sometimes we go Dutch. I have been unable to detect any pattern in how this is decided; and there is, as far as I can determine, no attempt to “balance the books” involved. We did just have a discussion regarding the fact that our dates include my having to purchase plane tickets and pay for a hotel for the weekend, which essentially consisted of me assuring her that I can afford it, and that I gladly spend the money for the privilege of her company.
I’m in the “as long as she’s presentable & appropriately dressed for the occasion” camp, which is also how I dress for dates. I also prefer makeup to be non-existant, or subtle enough that I don’t notice it.
Whoosh!
looks confused
Yes, I was whooshed, but my friend (Innisfree) has now clarified her position.