This thread is better suited for In My Humble Opinion.
I’ll move it for you.
Cajun Man
for the SDMB
Let’s try this again. I wrote something and it didn’t seem to post. I’m the friend so you can lay into me if you want. Just to let you know I wasn’t being totally serious, just frustrated with being a girl at the time of the theory. It’s hard being a girl sometimes. It just is. I’m not what is being described by some. I haven’t had much experience with dating mainly because I grew up the shy, akward nerd type who preffered schoolwork over going out and getting dolled up and socializing. My ideal date actually wouldn’t cost anything because I’d probably enjoy laying out under the stars as much as anything. I hardly wear any makeup, and most days will find me in jeans and a sweater or t-shirt. If I could live any life it would probably be in a cabin in the middle of the woods with someone a feel a deep emotional/spiritual connection with and with whom there is a mutual respect, affection, and sharing. Also, I would never go out with a guy just for his money. I hate money, I hate having to think about it, I hate that it even factors into how we think of others. If I could be a hippie I probably would. The most important thing for me is not the money someone makes, but whether we connect on an emotional, intellectual, and spiritual level so that we can be there for each other in the ways that really count.
Well, that’s a little more insightful. I will ease off you then. If I was still single, I’d ask if you wanted to go out into the hills with my telescope and binoculars and I would show you some neat stuff in the sky. Ah, well…good luck anyways.
Cool. It’s hard being a guy sometimes too. Ditto on the dating inexperience too, mainly because I grew up the shy, awkward village weirdo who couldn’t have gone into town looking for dates even if I’d known how to look. Don’t assume the other person’s grass is always greener, lose the attitude that getting yourself a date is costing you more time and effort than it cost the guy, lose the attitude that, even if it did, you’re entitled to something in return, and … bonne chance.
My response to your friend:
It is frustrating that the cost of haircuts, drycleaning, etc., is demonstrably higher for women than men in North America. I respectfully disagree that this means that we women are entitled to increased compensation when dating, however.
For one thing, nobody is forcing you to accede to those '"cultural expectations of beauty"when you go on a date as a private citizen of your own free will. If you choose to accede, it is your decision and your responsibility, not that of the man you are dating. The near-certainty that you are getting gussied up to impress him (and if you two hit it off, hopefully make it more likely that he will want to continue to date you) does not change anything, IMHO, because he (hopefully) has not requested you do so. Even in the context of work, where many are expected to adhere to a certain level of dress and grooming: very few employers will reimburse you for those costs - so why are you expecting this acquaintance who wants to get to know you better to do so?
I think the more important point is the one that Robot Arm made:
Dating is not a zero-sum game.
If you go into a date (or just about any personal relationship) with the attitude of I am coming into this as the disadvantaged party and I expect the other person to be willing to compensate me for this in exchange for the privilege of being my friend or lover, you will be crippling the potential of your relationship. As many of the other people on this thread have said, if they realized on dating someone that that someone had that attitude, they would be less likely to continue dating that person. Most people want a life partner who will try to be good to them, absolutely, but not at the cost of feeling that score is being constantly kept.
Guys are generally bigger and stronger, may get paid more for some types of “work of equal value”, and have higher metabolisms so they can work off the junk food faster. Gals generally have higher pain tolerance, longer and usually healthier lifespans, more physical flexibility, and are the ones who can get pregnant, give birth, and breastfeed. (I see the inconvenience of periods and PMS and the pain of childbirth as an acceptable tradeoff for the pleasure of being able to feel new life growing in you and then being able to nurture it directly from myself, but I can understand if you don’t feel that way. ) People tend to focus on the inequalities between the genders and forget that there are all sorts of inequalities within gender groups. We are not all created biologically equal and there is no point fighting the weather on that. You are smarter than some people and less smart than some others. You are taller than some people and shorter than others. You have some talents and lack others.
If you find that having your partner pay occasionally for the two of you to go on a date together (rather than splitting the costs) makes you feel special and happy, then it’s reasonable to negotiate that with him at some stage. My husband knows my pre-baby list by heart “Trips and nice dinners and visits to the theatre …” Please, do yourself a favour and do not ask for this out of a sense of entitlement, but as a way of letting the other person know what makes you happy.
Perhaps the first bit leads you to become anxious and perhaps over-analytical when invited out to dinner or whatever?
Just a thought.
You know, it sounds as though your preferred kind of guy might be equally awkward about slightly formal outings, (using “awkward” merely for want of a better word right now, and meaning no offence".
(And, yes, I’m more of a scruffy walk in the countryside person too. Or folk music and cheap casual supper in a pub.)
Even if that is not the case, your date is probably just as nervous and as fussed about looking right and making the evening go well as you are.
Strangely, the business of feeling shy and awkward has the oppostie effect on me, I find - if anything, it makes more certain that, while sometimes it is really more polite to accept someone paying for a meal or a concert (and in my circles, both would tend to be of the cheaper variety anyway), I would tend to make damn sure that next time we meet, I pay - it just seems more naturally fair and equal.
I’m a bit glad to hear your theory was partly a joke, though.
So, after such an unusual introduction to the SDMB,
do you feel you can stay around here? It’s a great board*, and I’m sure you will like it.
Welcome.
- A great board, but I just discovered a tiny little problemette - I first spelled “offence” with an “s”. Aaaarrrgghhhh - this must not happen. :eek:
That’s more like the friend I know and love. (No more crazy theories though, give me a disclaimer or something, because I’ll take you seriously - you can seem so darn earnest!!)
Welcome to the boards, Innisfree.
And thanks for your response.
Regards,
Shodan
Responding without reading the thread fully:
I pay for dates as long as my finances allow. I do it because I still retain the belief that it is the way it should be. If my date insists I let her pay, I’ll put up a token defense and if she insists further - I let her. But otherwise, I am more than willing to pay.
I’m not trying to make the statement that women shouldn’t be equal, or any of that crap, I’m just trying to be the gentleman and take care of the woman on evenings out and about.
Her logic is faulty as you pointed out, and I would be insulted if I found out she was letting me pay only because she felt I owed it to her.
Now… having written my unbiased response, I’ll read the thread 
I was like this, too. I didn’t date much for a very long time, but eventually I found a wonderful man who appreciates me even if I don’t get dolled up and meet the cultural expectations of beauty. There are men like that out there.
Anyone with such reasoning ability should also wear a warning sticker when going out on a date.
I don’t care if I pay or not, but I would not want to date someone who thought that I should pay because she wears makeup and has a period.
I didn’t see this point made, so I’ll go ahead and make it:
- expensive clothes
- makeup
- hair arrangement
What do these three things have in common? That’s right, it’s “things men do not notice or care about”.
Sorry, Priceguy , it is my experience that while men say they do not notice or care about expensive clothes, hairstyling and make-up, they do notice and appreciate the results. 
Maybe it’s just because I don’t usually wear make-up and tend to be casual in my style of dress outside of work, but my husband definitely appreciates it when I get gussied up. Which is just as well, because part of why I dress up is so he can show me some extra appreciating …
I second Anne Neville on the idea that there are wonderful men out there who will appreciate you for who you are, and not just that you clean up nice. I married one, after all ; take a bow, trupa .
Well, firstly I find the notion that a woman would dress nicely and pamper herself with nice makeup, perfume, etc, solely for the purpose of enticing men to be sort of sad.
Secondly, lots of men (not all) say “I love a natural looking girl who doesn’t wear makeup.” in one breath and then say “I think Pam Anderson is the ideal woman.” in the next breath. Basically, I’m not sure most men know what “no makeup” looks like.
Anyhow, YMMV. If I as, I pay, if he asks, he pays.
Late post:
Makeup? I prefer none.
Expensive clothes? It’s not a competition, if we’re going someplace nice we’re both shelling out comparable dough on threads.
And if she feels having a period is enough of a burden to justify making me pay her way, how about if I offer to make her peiod go away for about a year. Free of charge? I’d do that for her.
I do indeed notice hair, makeup and clothes. And I’m put off by them if I notice them.
I find myself wondering: HAIR “How do you make hair do that? And how much TIME did you spend teasing it into that 'do? I am really interested in what you’d look like emerging from the tent on a cool rocky mountain morning.”
MAKEUP: “What are you hiding and why? Do you have stripes? 666 birthmark on your cheek? Natural green complexion? How much TIME did you spend painting yourself?”
CLOTHES: “You can’t be comfortable wearing that…”
And alice_in_wonderland, Pam Anderson looks like a whore. I’d charge HER and still I might not put out.
Not that this has anything to do with the cost of dating, but I think we’re safely off that topic now anyway…
Often, the most expensive haircut is one that makes the style look effortless and natural.
Often, the most expensive, artfully-applied makeup results in the woman looking like she’s not wearing any at all.
Often, the clothes that fit the best and last the longest wind up being the most expensive ones.
The best hair, makeup, and clothing don’t get noticed – they’re not supposed to. But everyone notices bad hair, makeup, and clothing.
Touche’.
Absolutely 100% right in my experience as well! They go from ‘I just love a natural woman!’ to ‘I have some magazines I’d like you to look at, can you look like they do naturally?’ What many men really mean is this:“I love a woman who is naturally beautiful, like all those women I see in the movies!” Having not had to make the ‘getting ready’ effort many women do, they haven’t a clue what it entails.