One guy said, “do you have a boyfriend?” As an opener.
Me:" No, and I don’t want one."
That’s right, or another situation is when you have a mutual acquaintance. My dating experiences were always one of those situations.
It’s not only that you have something in common, it’s also that you both risk social consequences if you behave badly enough. Doesn’t always work in practice, but the theory is that it’s safer that way.
And if the guy’s a creep, he’s got your phone number, and can hassle you through it. And if all you did was walk up and ask for her phone number – you’ve given no indication that you’re not a creep, and some indication that you might well be. Because seriously, who just walks up to a stranger on the street and asks for their phone number? That’s massively intrusive.
It certainly could be a chance meeting – but it’s going to be a chance meeting about something other than sex. I could get talking to somebody at the library, or at the grocery, or at the farmers’ market, or in the line at Motor Vehicles, or at a meeting about something, or at a party. And if, after some of that, they asked me ‘would you like to go out sometime’, I might take them up on it. I would know by then, if nothing else, whether they seemed to be listening to me in the conversation, or just to be overriding me to make their own points regardless of what I was saying. Which is certainly not what I want in bed, any more than anywhere else.
And what you want to do is to demand her phone number without having shown any signs of listening to her first. You may think you’re doing so politely – but there is no way to politely walk up to a stranger and start off by asking for her phone number. It’s rude in itself, and I’m pretty sure this isn’t the first time in this thread that I’ve explained why.
If I sense a mutual flirtation going on regardless of who initiated it I might smile and ask if you are single. I usually make an obvious glance at the ring finger before inquiring. I have never had what I would call a bad response.
Exactly. There has to some overriding reason you both are in that location, and it can’t be just about meeting someone.
Going back to the OP’s first post, I note that he says this:
Which, OK, seems to suggest a level of understanding that most women are not going to be open to a date (or giving out their phone number) the moment that a guy walks up to them.
But, earlier in the thread, he also said:
The third sentence indicates that he does not actually understand the need to actually talk with, and get to know a woman, first, given that he refers to it as “a little dance” and “banter.”
Here’s my advice, OP, if you are feeling confounded. Get socially active with groups and communities that interest you: church, volunteering, gaming, whatever. Meet people there, with whom you actually have something in common, other than “you’re good-looking and I would like to date you.” Strike up conversations with them. And, if there’s a woman whom you get to know a little bit through that, and you two seem to hit it off, then ask her if she might like to do something together, and ask her for her phone number.
Or, if that’s too much of a “little dance,” go to singles bars, where at least the people there expect that others whom they don’t know from a hole in the ground will be trying to pick them up.
Mutual attraction is not the same as having something in common - and there won’t be any mutual attraction if I haven’t even had a conversation with the guy. Really. It’s not a moral sort of thing , but the only thing I know about him is that he likes how I look (since he knows nothing else) and that’s not something that attracts me. You might say I know how he looks and that might attract me - but that’s not enough , especially since given my (limited ) experience with really good-looking guys it’s much more likely to repel me if that’s all I know.
Yeah, like most women, i really don’t find any man attractive just from what he looks like. I need to know something about him before he’s attractive. “Attractive” doesn’t just refer to physical appearance.
Thanks, but I said I wasn’t looking for dating advice.
I’ve done that. We met because both our kids go to the same martial arts studio. It started with smiles, and light conversation, before I eventually told her my name. Last time I saw her, I got her number. I have no idea if we’ll hit it off, but it’s a good start; we obviously are attracted to each other, and she’s laughed at dumb shit I’ve said.
Clearly, this is how it’s usually done.
The point of this thread was to ask about other situations where that opportunity doesn’t present itself. Where you might see somebody out and about and want to talk with them and get to know them.
From the tenor of the responses, that is a bad idea for most women; it’s going to make them uncomfortable and disinterested
And that’s fine. If the woman at the martial arts studio isn’t for me, I’ll meet somebody another way (I go to a gym where there is a woman I see regularly who is gorgeous, and gives me glances; we have the gym in common)
I do, however, find it amusing to compare this dichotomy with the online dating advice from female dating coaches, who assure men that women want eligible men to talk to them (and, sure, they will suggest discussing something in the moment to begin the conversation and gauge her interest, not just a direct ask for a date - but that speaks to the balance I asked about in the OP, as opposed to a warning that the approach should just not be done).
(Though at least one article - I havent actually paid for online dating coaches - has indicated that this may be different for different ages. As women age, per the surveys, they are less open to a random approach)
ETA: Happy birthday
I have found some men attractive – occasionally very attractive – based just on what they look like.
And I have had that attraction snap right off like a light switch if the person then said something I found abhorrent.
Coming up to me cold on the street and immediately asking for my phone number isn’t that kind of abhorrent, exactly – but it’s also going to snap that switch right off.
There is a whole lot of shit online that isn’t so.
Plus which – from what you’re saying, even that online advice isn’t to start by asking for a phone number.
As a male, that’s exactly my perception of women – it’s the whole package, not just superficial appearances. I got some pushback on that in the Pit thread about Alina Habba, but I just find her repulsive because of who she is, end of story.
Regarding the rest of the conversation, geez, how all-around depressing. I was happily married for many years, raised a family, and was amicably divorced many years ago, and the ex-wife has been one of my best friends ever since. I want nothing further to do with “relationships” and am so incredibly glad to be out of that rat-race, though I acknowledge the human need for companionship. I have no idea how people these days should achieve it. I’m perfectly content in my current status as a metropolitan single (some might say “recluse”) and would have it no other way. Many others are, too.
Apologies for overstepping the guidance you were asking for here.
Wanting men to talk to them is not the same thing as just asking for a date, though. I’m not really seeing a major disagreement there.
As someone upthread pointed out, even on dating apps, where the whole point is finding dates, it’s normal to text back and forth a bit and determine if you might be interested in each other before going out on a date. Even a low-stakes coffee date.
I’ve been out of the dating pool for decades, but I can’t imagine approaching a woman out of the blue and asking for her number. I approached a few women to gauge interest, but that didn’t work because I could never gauge interest short of being asked for my number. That only happened once, and we ended up married. And Ms. P has said she was immediately attracted to me. She didn’t ask for my number until we’d had a fairly long conversation, though.
Let’s imagine you walk up to someone and immediately ask for their number and start call or text each other without much other interaction up to this point.
You say this would then be the process of getting to know whether you might want to date, and that this avoids the “dance” and “small talk”.
But what, exactly, would these conversations entail, in your mind?
Because from my perspective, this is the small talk.
You don’t get a sense of whether someone wants to date you by talking about the weather and the various reasons why the bus is late. That’s a conversation you have with a stranger who you may never see again. Dating means more than that, it means conversations of actual substance and common interest.
Skipping this part basically amounts to only being interested in the physical aspects of another person (jumping straight to casual sex). If that’s what you want, just be up front about it, but don’t pretend it’s some sort of “I want to see if we’re compatible” process. It really isn’t.
And women - and men, I imagine - would prefer to just say “no thanks, I’m not interested” during that face to face moment, than during a phone call later on because you don’t want to chit chat.
I don’t think there should be a distinction, at all. One is regular, chit-chat, or bullshitting, or passing the time.
The second is, to me, just an awful thing. On the level of a deception, or even a perversion. One should never talk with people with ulterior, unstated motives. Maybe if one is a politician or a salesman, but not in real life with real people.
Now, it’s perfectly possible to have a polite, even charming conversation by being direct. Using, you know, words and all that. May not be to everyone’s style or taste, but far preferable to what is always a creepy, painfully obvious attempt to skirt the “matter” by hiding one’s intentions.
Thank you for saying this. That’s what I’ve always done, as a regular single dude. No pressure, no nothing. Just, “Hey, here’s my number if you want to chat a bit more about [blahblahwhatever].” You’ll 100% of the time get an “answer” within a fraction of a second by her response.
I’m going to have to agree with the ‘never approach a strange woman and ask for her number’. As has been said, there are times when it is appropriate to give a strange woman your number. But never ask for hers.
Personally, I can’t imagine realistic circumstances in which I would want to date somebody based on appearance alone. Back when I was thinner and younger, I have had women offer numbers when I was playing with kids I knew. But this was at synagogue events. I gave serious thought to teaching my niece to say “That’s my Uncle Cathode. He’s smart, handsome, loving and looking for a nice Jewish girl.” I never did.
I met my GF/Fiancee at a friend’s party. Due to lithium carbonate, I get VERY thirsty. She was making punch. I was giving the punch bowl the eye. Then, to be polite, I struck up a conversation and aksed for some punch. Apparently she kept giving me hints to sit next to her all night. I kept missing them. She did ask for my number at the end of the party By then, we knew we had much in common.
To sum up- I feel I have some useful advice to give, but you said you don’t want it. So just try this- Excuse me, how would you feel if I asked for your number? Oh? How would you feel if I asked for your unwashed panties, a handful of gummi bears, and an unfiltered cigarette? Oh? Asking for you number doesn’t seem so bad now does it?
Leading with asking for their number? Almost never.
On average, women need to be a lot more careful in the dating world than men do. While you had a stalker-y experience, I’m assuming your size, weight and/or strength were greater than hers, so your inherent safety was greater. Not so for most women. Do you remember #metoo? I was fucking horrified at how many women in my life had been sexually assaulted.
So women are in a position where they need to suss out a guy’s potential using social cues. Are they interesting? Are they interested in me (beyond my looks)? Are they (distressingly) awkward? Do they have the emotional intelligence and thoughtfulness to carry on a conversation? Et cetera.
I don’t blame you for not liking small talk — so don’t engage in small talk. Think of authentic, friendly, low-stakes, but interesting questions and observations relevant to the forum that you two have found yourself in.
You’re auditioning to be an intimate human connection. You need to demonstrate right out of the gate that you can connect with someone like a human. Frankly, jumping straight to “Hi, I’d like your phone number please” strikes me as socially inept and suggests you only care about her superficialities. “No,” you say, “the phone number is so we can set up a time to get a coffee and get to know each other better.” Well dude, there’s no time like the present. If you can say it over coffee, chances are you can say it in the initial encounter. And while you know you’d NEVER harrass her if it doesn’t work out for any reason — does she know that? Plenty of women don’t feel like they can say “I’m not that into you” because they aren’t confident the man will take it like a mature adult. Ask your lady friends if you don’t believe me.
And not for nothing, this is not all that unlike an interviewing process. If she is available, you are competing with other dudes that will make the effort to engage her in a personable way. This will beat an abrupt request for contact information every time.
If she’s worthy of making an effort — make an effort.
This whole thing is why I think dating apps are great. Yes, they have problems, but when you see a woman on a dating app, you not only know whether you find her immediately attractive, you also get to know something about her, without having to awkwardly approach her, go through small talk, phone calls, first dates, etc. There’s a built-in process understood by both parties whereby you can communicate in a safe way and get to know each other before meeting in person, which many women find more acceptable than talking to strangers who approach them on the street. And most importantly, you know that she is also (probably) interested in finding a partner. Most women you just approach on the street will already be partnered, so even if she’s your type and you’re her type, you’re probably not going to get together. Dating apps streamline this whole process. You don’t have to waste your time and hers going on 2 or 3 dates before you discover that she has an incompatible lifestyle, political or religious views or whatever. Yes, people lie on their profiles or omit important information, but they do that in person too. In the 8 years between when my last wife died and when I met my current wife, I met and dated at least 10 times as many women as I did in my whole life before that, all via okcupid. Most didn’t work out, until one did. If I’d done it the old fashioned way, trying to meet women in shared activities or out in public, it probably would have taken me decades before finding someone as compatible as my current wife (and I’d be long dead before then).