Dating question: When is it ok for a man to approach a women he doesn’t know to ask for her number?

[msmith537]

So with respect to the OP, I guess the answer is - can you approach a woman you don’t know without coming across as overly aggressive or “rapey” or rude? Can you strike up a conversation with a woman and quickly gauge whether there is mutual interest there and then politely leave if there is not?

Popular dating apps never really existing until I was in my early 30s. So during my mostly single years, if you wanted to date someone outside your circle of acquaintances, you had to approach a woman you didn’t know. I think these days with apps making dating so transactional, so much human interaction being conducted on social media, and “wokeness” making men overly self conscious about doing anything “manly” I think people in general are much less social with people they don’t know. Which makes it a lot more jarring if a total stranger approaches you.

In the past, there may have been a lot more casual interactions, with occasionally a person might feel a connection and want to follow up with coffee or dinner or something. Now if someone approaches you, it feels like one of those Greenpeace idiots on the street with their clipboard, getting overly familiar too quickly as they obstruct your path as they go into their sales pitch.

It’s the difference between “I met this interesting guy while shopping today” vs “I got hit on by some socially clueless weirdo”.

[thorny_locust]

@msmith537

Popular dating apps never really existing until I was in my early 30s. So during my mostly single years, if you wanted to date someone outside your circle of acquaintances, you had to approach a woman you didn’t know.

Or go to any number of group activities at which people could reasonably strike up a conversation. I’m in my 70’s. For men to approach random women on the street has been a bad idea for all of my life; not that this has stopped all of them, of course.

It may have been more acceptable to start talking to the person sitting next to you on the bus, or standing next to you in the grocery line, or something of that sort – that is still acceptable around here, and I think may have more to do with local population density than with what year it is. But even then, one didn’t and doesn’t start by asking them for their phone number.

[doreen]

I’m a few years younger than you , and there is no point in my life where it would have been acceptable for a total stranger to just ask me for my number out of nowhere. Not even at a bar - there would have been some minimal conversation first. ( or alternatively, no asking for my number at all, just an invitation to go somewhere else) I’m trying to think of where I met the various guys I went out with - and the answers are through friends, at work ( customers and coworkers) , at school , or hanging out at the same place regularly ( like a bowling alley or skating rink ). And even then , the first conversation never started with a request for a phone number.

[suranyi]

@msmith537

Popular dating apps never really existing until I was in my early 30s. So during my mostly single years, if you wanted to date someone outside your circle of acquaintances, you had to approach a woman you didn’t know.

There’s a difference between approaching a woman you don’t know out of the blue, and approaching a woman you don’t know personally but know a little bit about her. It’s perfectly acceptable to approach a woman you don’t know if you’re in the same club, for example.

That’s why it’s so important to get out there into the social world to have a chance to meet a partner.

[msmith537]

@doreen

I’m a few years younger than you , and there is no point in my life where it would have been acceptable for a total stranger to just ask me for my number out of nowhere. Not even at a bar - there would have been some minimal conversation first. ( or alternatively, no asking for my number at all, just an invitation to go somewhere else) I’m trying to think of where I met the various guys I went out with - and the answers are through friends, at work ( customers and coworkers) , at school , or hanging out at the same place regularly ( like a bowling alley or skating rink ). And even then , the first conversation never started with a request for a phone number.

I would agree opening with some variation of “can I have your number” without any conversation seems a little odd. Although I’m actually not sure why, as many people are perfectly fine using dating apps where they connect with other people using little more than a photo and their contact information.

I would at least try to charm a woman with promises of the fanciest bowling ally bar in town first.

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@msmith537

I would at least try to charm a woman with promises of the fanciest bowling ally

Well, I now have a new goal in life.

[doreen]

I’ve been thinking about it and I might have figured it out. I’ve never used a dating app so I could 100% be wrong but the general impression I get is that most dating apps involve answering questions/making a profile. And I think that makes it more like “Lisa thinks Rob and I have a lot in common” than “stranger asked for my number out of nowhere”.

The reason people are fine connecting with people on dating apps based on just a photo and contact info is because there won’t be any mismatches . It’s not the same people connecting on the dating app with little info who getting creeped out by the person just asking for a number in real life. If I’m not OK with connecting based just on a photo and contact info, I won’t choose someone who only provides that info.

[msmith537]

I’ve never used one either, but I know they do vary. eHarmony for example collects all sorts of information and uses complex analytics to try and make matches. AFAIK, Tinder is just a photo and some superficial information like height, stated income, and some interests. Match.com seems like somewhere in between.

I’m pretty sure there are “mismatches” all the time.

I think the advantage of apps is that they are self selecting. People wouldn’t be on them if they weren’t looking to meet other people. A woman on the street, you don’t know if she’s in a relationship, having a bad day, having a good day she doesn’t want interrupted, or simply isn’t looking for a relationship. And from what I’ve observed a lot of men don’t grasp the subtleties of social cues.

[Moriarty]

@msmith537

I would at least try to charm a woman with promises of the fanciest bowling ally bar in town first.

The female dating coaches who post videos on Instagram always suggest you make some offer like “I know the best taco place.”

Problem being, you’ve got to know a taco place.

[Babale]

@Moriarty

Problem being, you’ve got to know a taco place.

Worlds Best Cup of Coffee

[velomont]

@doreen

The reason people are fine connecting with people on dating apps based on just a photo and contact info is because there won’t be any mismatches

And also because that is the explicit purpose (to meet “cold”) is it not?

I’m 65 and I was single and dating before most people even had computers so dating apps did not yet exist. However, I did try a dating club for about a year, in which a lot of the dating app stuff was done on paper and matches were facilitated by the dating club “guy” who ran the thing. I joined because I’m just awkward (and unknown at the time, high functioning autistic) enough that I wasn’t comfortable with explicitly asking women on dates unless there was some context, such as at a bar, or it was someone I had already had some sort of conversation with already.

[msmith537]

@Moriarty

What confounds me is that this necessitates a little dance, wherein you must first banter, to achieve the end of approaching a woman to ask for a date.

…

Secondly, I realize I’m over analyzing what is simple human interaction. I’m doing so here because we are the Dope, and it’s something I find curious about human behavior. So if it comes across as creepy, I do apologize in advance.

I fully understand that women are not merely conquests, and that male female interactions are not “moves” to obtain sex. I’m not an Incel or anything, but the courtship of humans is compelling, especially as a person who has to make a conscious effort to put myself out there.

[/quote]

I would fundamentally disagree with you there. People can dress it up however they like, but at the end of the day you are looking to “obtain sex”. And to achieve that objective, there are a series of “moves” and social cues, a “dance” if you will, that one is expected to perform, based on the particular norms of your culture, circumstances, personality, etc. Keeping in mind, most women (and I dare say most people) want to feel somewhat charmed and romanced by the interaction and not that it is simply a transactional exchange leading to sex (although some may prefer that).

What makes something “creepy” is if there is an air of menace or disingenuousness to it, which is what often happens if a man is oblivious to the signals a woman is giving off. As a guy I’ve had women approach me out of the blue from time to time, usually just being friendly. And I’m relatively friendly and eager to talk to people but even I can sometimes find it a bit jarring. I can imagine how a woman half my size might feel.

I suppose one question is whether it is more authentic to be direct and say something like “would you like to get coffee sometime?” or `blather away for ten minutes being clever and charming before getting to the point when both of you know why the conversation was initiated in the first place. The answer is “depends”.

[Moriarty]

@msmith537

People can dress it up however they like, but at the end of the day you are looking to “obtain sex”.

There seems to be a belief that going up to a person you find attractive (with the hope of getting to know them better) is just an attempt at sex.

@Dangerosa

mutual attraction doesn’t sustain a relationship - it can sustain sex for a while if that is what you are interested in, but eventually, you want conversations

@Babale

I would also add that people can tell if you’re only having a casual conversation with them because you want sex

@crazyjoe

if you can’t establish ANY pretense at all for the causal conversation. It boils down to a more polite version of “Nice dress, wanna copulate?”

I’m guessing that when people hear somebody say that they saw a person they thought was beautiful, and for that reason they wanted to get to know them, they presume that the person is only seeking them for a sexual connection.

Whereas, if, for example, they saw that person reading a book, and struck up a conversation about that, then it would indicate that the person was seeking a more genuine connection, and not a mere physical one.

For me, at least, this is odd. If I am seeking a girlfriend, she has to check certain boxes: I just can’t happily date a Trump supporter, for example, or somebody who doesn’t like animals.

But (and I certainly don’t think this is unique), I must also be attracted to her. In fact, that’s almost certainly one of the most mutually common beliefs within relationships - the people are attracted to each other.

Now, I am fully aware that attraction depends largely on personality, but there is definitely a physical element.

So going up to somebody you don’t know, but find attractive, is not merely pursuing sex. It’s pursuing a relationship by trying to find out if the person who potentially checks one box (they look nice) also checks others (is nice to waiters, doesn’t get sloppy drunk, et al)

My original OP about men asking women for their phone number (as misguided as I now understand that to be) was a question about establishing further communication following a chance meeting.

The whole Down to Fuck thing is down the hall, sitting at the bar. If you go, say hi to my ex-wife.

[thorny_locust]

Have not used one – but it’s my impression that the “contact info” available immediately through a dating app is contact through the app itself; and that people usually talk through the app at least briefly first before exchanging any other contact info, and may also set up a meet in a public place before deciding whether to provide anything that could plausibly be used to track them down.

The other difference seems to me to be extremely obvious. Anybody on a dating app is actively looking for somebody to date. A high percentage of people walking down the street are not looking for anybody to date. Some of them may be doing their damndest to avoid being approached by people wanting to date them, short of hiding inside their houses and never going anywhere.

Plus which, people using a dating app choose when to look at it. Even somebody who would like to find a dating partner may have something else on their minds at a given moment, and not want to be approached at that time.

[Babale]

@Moriarty

For me, at least, this is odd. If I am seeking a girlfriend,

I’m gonna stop you right there - that’s what I’m talking about.

If you’re “seeking a girlfriend”, then yeah, casual conversation is just prelude to dating and if you both know that you can cut to the chase. Do that on the apps, or at a singles’ bar, or at a mixer.

Don’t “seek a girlfriend” out and about when interacting with people in the normal world.

If, in the course of having normal human interactions with other people, you come to the realization - “I am attracted to this person, they seem attracted to me, maybe this could be something” - by all means, ask them out.

But don’t approach random people in everyday situations and try to “seek a girlfriend”.

[msmith537]

@Moriarty

@msmith537

People can dress it up however they like, but at the end of the day you are looking to “obtain sex”.

There seems to be a belief that going up to a person you find attractive (with the hope of getting to know them better) is just an attempt at sex.

Not “just” but it’s part of the equation. Pretending that it’s not is disingenuous IMHO. The OP wasn’t asking “when is it ok for a man to approach a woman he doesn’t know and comment about the weather?”

[Babale]

@thorny_locust

The other difference seems to me to be extremely obvious. Anybody on a dating app is actively looking for somebody to date. A high percentage of people walking down the street are not looking for anybody to date. Some of them may be doing their damndest to avoid being approached by people wanting to date them, short of hiding inside their houses and never going anywhere.

To use what thorny here said to emphasize my earlier point -

Engaging in “girlfriend seeking” behavior with people who aren’t in “boyfriend seeking” mode is what is creepy.

If you have a normal, non-girlfriend-seeking conversation with someone, and you realize you are both single and interested, fine, shift into girlfriend seeking mode (it sounds like that’s what you did with that lady at your kid’s class, that’s great!).

If you’re meeting people in a context that’s all about dating, like an app or a singles’ bar, then that’s great too.

But analyzing random women to see if they meet your taste and then approaching them surreptitiously to try and get their number just feels predatory AF.

[doreen]

@msmith537

I’m pretty sure there are “mismatches” all the time.

I didn’t describe what I meant well - I didn’t mean mismatches as in they don’t end up interested in each other. I’m sure that happens all the time. I meant “mismatches” as in mismatched approaches - if someone just provides a photo and contact info then I won’t choose them if I want more information.

[kenobi_65]

@Moriarty

So going up to somebody you don’t know, but find attractive, is not merely pursuing sex.

Perhaps you don’t feel that it’s true for you. From what I’ve heard and read over the years, including in this thread, I suspect that many attractive women (who find that they are continually “hit on” by men they don’t know) would tell you that you’re the exception to the rule.

That’s the problem, and that’s why so many women in this thread have indicated that they wouldn’t be willing to give out a phone number, or even really entertain a conversation, from a guy they don’t know, particularly if they aren’t in a venue (like a singles bar) where the idea of being there is to meet potential dates.

[Dallas_Jones]

When is it OK for a man to approach a woman he doesn’t know and ask for her number?

The answer is NEVER! You will come across as a stalker creep loser. Believe it or not, women are not just waiting for the next person to hit on them. Rom-Com movies are not a great source of dating advice.