So the struggling leader of a party on a steep downward slope tries to boost his popularity by appealing to the most neanderthal sectarian “fringe” of his constituency (put in quotes 'cause it’s about the biggest fringe you’ll ever see). And this is the guy who’s treated (by the Brit and Free State media) as being one of the most reasonable of the lot.
Quelle surprise, from my POV.
I’m interested in what the Irish Americans of the SDMB have to say about this. I mean, a pol goes to a country and effectively tells a substantial percentage of its population that they’re backing a country that has no real raison d’être - don’t you find that the slightest bit offensive?
FYI Captain Amazing, plenty of those who fought for Ireland’s freedom have been Protestant. I’ll excuse you being ignorant of that fact but Trimble surely ought to be aware of it.
Seriously though, doesn’t anyone else see this as a monumental error of judgment on Trimble’s part? I mean here he is always complaining about Irish America’s support for republicanism and then he goes to America and makes a comment which can only piss them off more.
“If England/Scotland had never become Protestant, and the British had treated the people and economic resources in Ireland as they did those on their side of the Irish Sea, the British Isles would today be one country.”
a northern irish politician (of any flavour, but mostly unionist) says something stupid…
if i had a pound for every time that happened…
££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
etc.
my favourite is still Paisley Snr saying
“the people are British, but the cows are Irish”
in relation to NI beef and BSE.
you gotta love them. in most other civilised countries these guys would be driving the buses and working in the factories, in Ulster (6 counties) we turn them into statemen.
Trimble would have had a point if he was talking about Ireland in the past. The church was amazing influential in the state and there was a lot of looking over the shoulder at the UK with regard to how Ireland and the Irish viewed themselves.
Over the last 20years that has really broke down. Entry in the EU had an awful lot to do with it with regards to our worldview. Ireland started to view itself differently.
The church is in a very bad way in Ireland. Its influence is miniscule compared to the past and with all the recent abuse charges this will continue.
Trimble is playing to his audience. I don’t think he actually views Ireland like this. It suits him to create that picture of Ireland as it confirms to his constitutions that Ireland is not the place for them. They are a papist anti-British society, why would you ever want to join in union which such people.?
He’s wrong but it all helps create a atmosphere that fits his political needs.
And in fairness Unionist NI doesn’t get the best airing either.
There’s very little to say about this. The raison d’etre of most countries can be boiled down to such pithy sentences. The reality is that now, Ireland is based on a whole range of shared attitudes and experiences that extends far beyond Catholicism and anti-Britishness. Unfortunately, confessional elements remain in our constitution and knee-jerk anti-Britishness is an element of our popular and political culture. I hope that the profound changes which have been taking place in Ireland in the relatively recent past (EU membership, the peace process, immigration etc.) will greatly dilute the influence of these factors.
While I think it’s irresponsible of Trimble to come out which such a facile and misleading statement, it behoves all people in public life in the south to consider the impact of their decisions, actions and pronouncements on the image of the Irish State amongst the Unionist community. There is no doubt that southern Protestants were frozen out by an unfriendly state in years gone by and anti-partitionists like myself shudder to hear the rhetoric which still surrounds abortion and divorce referendums. Statements about the eligibility of the killers of Gerry McCabe to avail of early release under the GFA, which implied that the life of a member of An Garda Síochána is more valuable than the life of a member of the northern security forces, are meat and drink to anti agreement unionists. Corruption was tolerated at every level of Irish business and politics. These examples are just the tip of the iceberg.
Trimble was wrong in what he said but we provide him with ammunition for these kind of statements all the time.
If he was only appealing to his own constituents, surely this remark would have been buried in The Newsletter? The Sun-Times article tells us that his stated intention was to help Chicagoans “hear the other side on Northern Ireland”, and it seems extraordinary that he should have imagined it would help.
According to the Belfast Telegraph, “Mr Trimble says the remarks were made in an informal chat with the editorial board of the Chicago Sun-Times. But the paper insists that a reporter was visibly taking notes as the Ulster Unionist leader was speaking”.
It’s self-evident that anti-Britishness and the Catholic church are a conspicuous presence in Ireland, but that’s a far cry from the idea that the country has no other reason to exit. What reasons do any countries have to exist?
Perhaps it is even more preposterous for him to describe Ireland as “sectarian, mono-ethnic, mono-cultural”, when his part of Ireland is the least ethnically-diverse part of the UK, and if left to his political supporters it’s likely to remain that way. Because the 2001 Census was the first to include a race-specific question for NI, no reliable figures are available, but Irwin’s & Dunn’s 1997 report Ethnic Minorities in Northern Ireland estimated the ethnic minority population at between 10,000 to 20,000 (approx 1.5% of the total population, vs. approx 6% for the UK as a whole).
It seems to me that the comments Irish contributors have made to this thread would be of far more use to people of Irish extraction outside the country in deciding what their position should be, and how Ireland should proceed, rather than the hasty remarks of David Trimble.
