In my years as a parent and now grandparent I have seen families where the child ran the show. Going to their home or having them over was always a nightmare because of the kid.
And even if there was an underlying mental issue there still is an onus on the parenting skills.
One thing to do is to call a spade a spade. When they request their kid blow out the candles stare them dead in the eyes and say “are you shitting me?” When they question why you haven’t gotten together for a while make no bones about it. “Because your sons behavior makes things intolerable!” I realize that this is confrontational and can be uncomfortable. But if anyone, adult or child is acting inappropriately you have every right to point it out.
I still remember my daughters 7th birthday party. My wife told a couple that they needed to take their little girl and leave because she was a brat and was making everyone miserable. The couple stormed off but the remaining parents all stood up and applauded her for doing what needed to be done.
Yeah, it takes some guts and gall to do that. I wouldn’t have her any other way.
It won’t gain me any admirers here, but here goes: The kid in the OP needs a few good thrashings. Acting like a little thug should get him treated like one. If that doesn’t actually show him the error of his ways, hopefully it will put the fear of the Lord into his mean little heart.
The line about blowing out the birthday child’s candles–and his father request that the birthday kid let him–should tell you all you need to know about the situation. That’s one spoiled-rotten asshole-in-training who doesn’t need a psych diagnosis to excuse his behavior–he needs to be stopped from acting like that, and if physical punishment is what it takes to stop him, it should be used. Liberally.
Not that that will happen, since obviously it’s the parents who are training him to be an asshole.
I’ve known a couple of kids who were raised in “the kid is always right” ultra-lenient fashion, and it worked just as well as a reasonable person would expect. Oh, the stories I could tell…
Sure. And I’ve known a few kids in my extended that were treated with thrashings and turned out to be the violent thugs you’d expect them to be. So anecdote meet anecdote.
When my daughter was in daycare, she came home one day shocked. A kid in her group bit another kid. My daughter couldn’t believe it. That was just such a bad thing to do! She kept telling us about how Joshua C**** bit Monica!
Then, a week or two later, she came home shocked again. Joshua C**** bit another girl! We had to sit and discuss with her about how some kids did bad things, etc.
When I picked my daughter up the following day, Mr C**** was there picking up little Joshua. Mr C**** was freaking the fuck out, because the owner of the daycare was there, returning money to him and telling him Joshua was no longer welcome. He kept explaining that he and his wife worked, they didn’t have an alternative, what was he going to do, etc, etc.
Mr C**** tried to enlist me in his argument, but I wasn’t having it. I told him my daughter hadn’t been bitten, but if she had, I’d be out for blood.
The kid’s behavior may not be solely due to bad parenting- but bad parenting (to the extent of a parent asking for the kid to be allowed to blow out the candles on another kids cake) certainly isn’t helping.
I think the issue is mostly the kid. My kids never did anything like that, and it’s not because “i raised then right”, it’s because they just aren’t wired that way.
That being said, the parents aren’t helping any, and as others have said, they have a responsibility to try to address it.
If it were my kid I’d be pulling out my hair, but if also be seeking professional help. But it’s not my kid, and it’s not the OP’s kid, and i don’t know that there’s much the OP can do other than stay away from the kid. Unless they are close with the parents, in which case, yeah, make sure they know that everyone else sees a problem, and maybe even dig up some resources for them.
The school may be helpful. I have a friend whose eldest was really wild as a child. Not as bad as described, but he did bite other kids in daycare, and tended to lash out. The kindergarten teacher managed to get through to the kid and helped a lot. They also got some explicit intervention via the school (i forget the details, the child is now 20) and in middle school the boy decided it was important that he straighten himself out. And, in fact, he not only did so but served as a mentor for other violent kids.
It would be great if a few wacks on the behind could make my kid neurotypical!
Things would go so much easier for her at school, and she wouldn’t require constant redirection to stay on task. Also think of the savings in therapists. Should I make it part of the bedtime routine, morning routine, or just random and unpredictable?
Many of these disorders, autism, AD(H)D, ODD, are heritable. Mom and Dad may not be as severe on them as Kid, but one or both of them probably are further along the spectrum than the average person. That can certainly make it more difficult for everybody. I see this dynamic between me, my wife, and my kid.
Mine is just a bit older, and was never particularly violent, though she can be destructive. At that age (and younger) control involved lots of helicopter parenting. It was necessary to be ready to move in and intervene on a moment’s notice. It was also a very difficult judgement call about when to intervene. Too often and she never learns how to solve problems herself. Too little and situations can quickly get out of control.
There were a couple or three kids like this in my child’s classes. All were boys. Leaving aside the blame-the-parents game and the just-beat-it-out-of-him advice, there could be a range of things going on. ADHD is an obvious one. I knew one boy who couldn’t control his impulse to break things, kick things, generally disrupt things. It was as though he was possessed (see: exorcism, above). His parents were exhausted managing him. I think they were really opposed to medicating him but he would have been far happier.
One of our sons was a bit hyper and rambunctious. If he became too loud, rude, or in any way destructive, he’d get severely jacked up. Right on the spot, we didn’t care who was watching or what they thought.
With children you’ll always get whatever behavior you are willing to tolerate. The parents in the OP are running an asshole academy. The story about the birthday candles really takes the cake, pun indended!
It was probably not the first time they’d been warned about this. How old was Joshua at the time, anyway? Older than 2, and I’d say something is definitely wrong.
BTW, I’ve heard that parents who have a toddler who is a biter can often cure a child of that by gently biting the child through their clothing, not hard enough to leave a mark but hard enough for them to feel it, and say, “That’s what it feels like.” Not always, but often.
I used to work at a clinic where there was a little boy who came in several times for appointments, and he apparently had a type of OCD where he had the compulsion to pick up any loose object, and throw it.
When I heard about the birthday candles, I thought it was the kid’s idea, which is not that odd, but the FATHER’S idea? Gee whiz, I suppose they wonder why he never gets any invitations. Maybe they’re hoping the police and fire department can fill in the blanks, KWIM?
Well, it technically was the kid’s idea. He wanted to blow them, so his father (next to him) asked the other kid to let him.
BTW, I realize I didn’t answer your other question. I don’t think the kid’s family is at my church anymore, they moved away pre-pandemic, I believe (unless it was a temporary relocation only and they came back. We’ve also been almost entirely on Zoom long distance since the pandemic began so it’s hard to see who’s still here and who’s not). So it’s more of a past-tense question. Nevertheless I still wanted to get people’s input and thoughts. For all we know, maybe there’s someone at this kid’s new church that is typing up a thread right now somewhere on an Internet board asking the same question…
Interesting implication that there’s no middle ground between the extremes of “the kid is always right” “ultra-lenient” childrearing, and administering physical “thrashings” to a child.
Yeah, not being able to perceive a middle ground between two extremes is generally not considered an admirable quality.
Chances are, you’re right. Didn’t realize this was actually a couple years ago.
Someone on another board has told the story about a little girl at her child’s school who would have outbursts so violent, the teacher had a “panic button” they could push when they anticipated one brewing, and the class would go to the library and all the male employees would come to the room in an attempt to stop her. One time, it took SIX adults to do this!
She added, “Before anyone asks why this girl isn’t in some kind of special program, or even an institution, she has an IQ off the charts and performs several grade levels ahead of her peers.” and added that her parents saw this in her beginning when she was a toddler. They’d tried behavior modification, medications, etc. and nothing seemed to work.
One problem, AIUI, is that you can’t tell at an early age whether a kid’s problems are just a phase he’ll grow out of, or a serious problem that will only get worse if not strongly intervened in. Unfortunately, “waiting out a phase” may just result in the problems getting too late to be solved.