I have a question for catsix – consider the following hypothetical:
I am waiting for the bus alone. The bus pulls up. I step up into the bus and just then notice you running to catch this bus. You are a good 15-20 seconds away from boarding … the driver sees you and waits.
Meanwhile, I pay the fare and survey the seats. I see only one seat open, towards the front. Aware that a woman is getting ready to board momentarily, I pass the empty seat up, walk to the back of the bus, and grab a pole.
When you get on, the open seat is ready for you. Do you think ill of me because (a) I arrived first and yet (b) passed on taking the empty seat?
I think it’s analogous. And while I agree such ignorance would likely not be acceptable here on the boards, an internet community ostensibly dedicated to fighting ignorance, it is perhaps a little more understandable from an elderly southern lady, not (despite her self-assessment) well-traveled, and taking place over twenty years ago.
The key element in both that story and the situation under discussion is that the speaker intends no offense, and is genuinely trying to be helpful or friendly. In such circumstances, I believe the right thing to do is react with kindness, rather than ire.
Yeah, kindness to the lesser-educated. No, seriously, I certainly wouldn’t jump all over her head shouting “GET IT RIGHT!” Especially not that age group…of course we must be kind to those people.
That doesn’t change the fact it is distinctly rude! The name I want to give you is the name I want you to know. Just because we’re Asian doesn’t mean we have to have some weird Asian name.
FWIW, I understand completely what Catsix is saying, and I agree totally. There is no legitimate reason for a man to give up a seat to an able-bodied woman just because she’s female. That kind of thinking is a holdover from a time when women were viewed as the weaker sex, and it was men’s job to take care of them. Frankly, I find catsix’s attitude refreshing in that she doesn’t want it both ways.
That said, I do think it would behoove her to have a little charity and realize that a great many men (especially older ones) were brought up that way and those habits are so deeply ingrained as to be reflexive; they mean no disrespect or insult, consciously or unconsciously. I’ve managed to shed most of the “traditional” gestures my mother raised me with, but a few remain. For example, I was taught that when meeting a woman, a man should not extend his hand to shake, he should wait for her to offer her hand because it is the woman’s prerogative whether to shake hands or not, and if she doesn’t, no harm, no foul. To this day, I rarely initiate a handshake with a woman; I just can’t make myself do it even though I realize it might be taken as rude.
I honestly can’t understand this point of view. I don’t believe rudeness on the part of others gives me an excuse to be rude in return. I don’t base my actions off of others. If nothing else, I can always walk away knowing I did the right thing even if the other person is behaving badly.
Thanks, Licentious Ectomorph , you said it better than me. What irks me is that at any given time there are numerous threads from shy or uncertain men who are asking for advice about how to approach women, or just how to meet people in general. And catsix’s hateful overreaction just wipes out any hope some men have of meeting a stranger. After reading her rant, I would be afraid to iniate conversation with an unknown woman, much less extend a courtesy to her. I would likely stare at the ground and avoid eye contact.
catsix , I understand why you would chastise a co-worker for making assumptions. I don’t understand why a courtesy from a stranger (male or female) would inspire such anger. And cursing. And name-calling. And hijacking a thread to promote a personal agenda
Maybe you have to be on the receiving end of a lot of those “courtesies” before you can realize how infuriating it is to be treated as tho you are helpless/stupid/childish/fragile.
Nah, you can’t generalize catsix’s behavior. It’s pretty rare among womankind … at least down here
In fact, I can’t recall ever having gotten a bad reaction in over three decades of holding open doors for women Not a one. Maybe if I lived on one of the coasts, I would have had different experiences.
Around here … I’d have to look hard – really hard – to find someone infuriated by what passes around here as common courtesy. :shrug: It’s a cultural thing, it seems.
I have been. I lived quite a few years in the South. I wasn’t offended by offers of seats, open doors, or help carrying heavy objects. I simply smiled and said “no thank you”. And occasionally I accepted an offer to help even if I didn’t need it. Many people wake up in the morning and plan to be kind to strangers. It makes them feel productive and useful. Some people would prefer that the world be a kinder place. Sometimes it can be rude to turn down an offer of help.
Why would you assume that polite behavior from a male or female stranger is cover for an agenda to undermine your abilities or human rights?
You all realize that “gentleman” is a euphamism for, “I want to check out your sweet ass after I let you pass me in a relatively innocuous way.”
Sheesh!
Maybe you should consider asking yourself *why * people treat you that way?
My mom always said, “The problem *can’t * be **everyone ** else.”
Seriously, it’s not a “cultural” thing, it’s an “I have rage and I enjoy sharing it.” thing. Most people are able to differentiate between a courtesy and an insult, and to understand that holding a door for someone, or offering them your seat, is not a political statement.
If you’re always on the lookout for things to be offended by, you’re bound to find them.
When you’re done with that sock, can I have it? I want to make one of those stuffed monkeys.
Catsix is a polite, well-spoken person. That’s a fact, Cholmondeley. She’s not angry or foul-mouthed. She’s a pleasure to talk with and she has good taste in beer and guns.
I hold the door for women, allowing them to pass through before. All women. I hold the door for my elders, also allowing them to pass through before me. I will hold a door open for a man younger or near my age till he reaches it and I’ll pass through before him. For me it is form of respect and courtesy, not an evaluation of physical competence. It is like paying the toll for the car behind you. It is not an evaluation of their financial status. Just a pleasant thing to do in a world sorely lacking in pleasant things.
I have always found it appreciated. I make no apologies.
Damn, hit Reply too soon. Beaucarnea- Welcome to the Board. I hope you’ll sign up.
Maybe it will help the conversation if I ask: “Are you now, or have you ever been, a Poster on the SDMB under any name other than that refered to herein?”
That being the case, no harm in discussing hypotheticals as catsix has laid them out in the other thread. If catsix herself would not curse out a seat-offerer or door-opener, we can still talk about the hypothetical act of cursing out those same folks.
No, seriously, I certainly wouldn’t jump all over her head shouting “GET IT RIGHT!” Especially not that age group…of course we must be kind to those people.
Not a one. Maybe if I lived on one of the coasts, I would have had different experiences.