Decembers pet sacred cow is the Republican Party.
Well, thank you from me, Shodan. You’re an honorable person and I knew there had to be a misunderstanding involved. But you forgot to do one thing.
Now that your story is straight, aren’t you going to tell me to fuck off? It seems only fair to me.
Well, still alive this?
Foistly, on the motivations: although I find it truly bizarre to see myself described as ‘liberal’ or ‘left of center’ – in fact I think those descriptions are bizarrely uninformed, but let’s abstract away unless those who made those statements could explain where that comes from. Let me say for hte record, the issue in starting this thread was not december’s constant maladroit attacks on his ideological other – the infamous liberals. Not at all, there are plenty of those around to defend themselves.
Rather it was the sheer stupidity of the OP – something that might barely have merited an IMHO thread I should say. The underlying article(s) are just so stunninlgy stupid and ill-informed that to try to make an argument from them strikes me as embarrasing (unless one is attacking them for their sub-literate attention seeking.). I should harldy think that this is a matter of ideology.
Secundo: Minty and Scylla have apparently not gotten the memo that only I am to be attacked and argued about in my threads, dilutes the content otherwise. Argue on your own time SVP, unless you mention me at least once per post.
Finally, I have not and do not call for december’s banning. His tireless service in discrediting his own arguments is often impressive, if strangely irritating. In general, no matter where on the ideological spectrum one is, I personally prefer the cogent and logical to the yammering ninnyhammered ideologue. If I may use the opposite end as a marker, it is much more satisfying to argue with Mandlestam than Stoid.
Now regarding december’s greater number of pit threads, I do not have an opinion on the ideological make up of this board – it seems fairly clear that each end of the spectrum has it’s own navel gazing point of view on that, but it does seem fairly obvious that december starts a huge number of OP of quNow regarding december’s greater number of pit threads, I do not have an opinion on the ideological make up of this board – it seems fairly clear that each end of the spectrum has it’s own navel gazing point of view on that, but it does seem fairly obvious that december starts a huge number of OP of questionable quality, on a very sustained basis. If one simply played the odds, in re GD starting on touchy subjects I am sure one would get up to double digits in his time span. Add in his unique concept of debate and you get a picture I think that has little to do with ideology per se
Now as to Shodan, well, you’re a yammering ideological idiot with substandard reading skills. But now that you’ve semi apologized, let me simply note that if one reads for understanding my initial post called the assertion stupid and silly, and while the dependent clause could have been clearer, at the time of writing – insofar as december at that point in the OP had not actually supported the assertions but expressed some mild disagreement – I thought it was clear to anyone with an ordinary skill in reading what the subject was, i.e. the blog and blogger.
Now obviously I can hardly be held accountable for your stupidity, either generally or in the particular here. So,
Regards…
Well, no, it was an assertion that some one was an "idjit’. I took it as aimed at december, which impression was reinforced by your starting this thread. Now you have clarified your position, (in my view) rightly so.
Let’s just call it a misunderstanding, and end it with warm regards and the desire that you discover that your sexual parts have been badly chewed after an unfortunate attempt to train your Rottweiler to fellate you.
Just to keep up the tone of the Pit, don’t you know.
Regards,
Shodan
PS - Feel free to copulate off if you wish, Sofa King, but do us all a favor and fuck right back on again. We need someone to keep me honest.
Relax. I am truly sorry if my imprecision of language impugned you in any way (I had observed that december had really pushed your buttons in inspiring this thread, then noted that he had a talent for doing that in infuriating left of center posters in general). I can see where that would make it seem like I was calling you a liberal, but I haven’t read enough of your postings to have an opinion on that one way or another.
Collounsbury: “Finally, I have not and do not call for december’s banning. His tireless service in discrediting his own arguments is often impressive, if strangely irritating. In general, no matter where on the ideological spectrum one is, I personally prefer the cogent and logical to the yammering ninnyhammered ideologue. If I may use the opposite end as a marker, it is much more satisfying to argue with Mandlestam than Stoid.”
:eek:
FTR, the name is Mandelstam (but I note that for Osip’s sake rather than my own).
Well, I’ve read this twice and I’ve yet to feel certain what sort of analogy you intended here! First, I’d place Stoid’s communicative skills at least on par with december’s though it appears that in this equation december is being likened both to Stoid and to me (depending on whether he is lodging his argument or discrediting it???). Second, I doubt very much that Stoid and I have identical political opinions, though we certainly often argue the same “side” on the simplistic kinds of debate that december tends to construct. (That’s not meant to sound as though I don’t respect Stoid’s political opinions; only that I’m not really able to classify my own political allegiances which run all over the map.) Third, while it’s true that december often discredits his own arguments, I doubt that’s because he’s cogent (though he is sometimes cogent) and it’s definitely not because he’s logical (because he is very often illogical, though one sometimes senses he’s deliberately so). Rather, december discredits his arguments because he offers no arguments.
december’s style of “arguing” is generally to come up with some glaringly partisan way of casting a debate and then, instead of defending that position, to go scattershot, pursuing any tangent that allows him to pack as many unsubstantiated partisan mistruths and slanders into a thread as is humanly possible for any one retiree with a search engine. The more logical and cogent his opponent, the more digressive and seemingly obtuse december becomes–though here and there, just when he’s given you the impression that he really has lost all his marbles, he will make a sound point. Then too, every once is a while he returns to the premise he started with, proving that he is impervious (or seemingly impervious) to the impact of any argumentative challenge, no matter how vigorous. Indeed, if sound arguments were bullets then december would be a bloodied corpose 10 times over by the middle of every thread he starts; but he rises like the un-dead, not because he is logically dexterous, but because, unlike most pertinacious posters, he doesn’t care at all whether he’s “winning” the debate. For him the winning is just in getting the thing to perpetuate. He will milk the thread for what it’s worth; till the last trash weblog has delivered up its lowgrade yield of puling predictability. And once about every ten threads (which means about 2x/week) he’ll admit that he was wrong–again, just to make sure that you know he hasn’t really lost his marbles lest you begin to think it’s pointless arguing with someone so blatantly non compis mentis.
So none of this makes him anything like Stoid (apart from the fact that both are good spellers) or indeed like anyone else. He is, IMO, in a class by himself (though if you remember peace from way back when there was an, um, genetic resemblance of a kind that makes me wonder if they might not be foreign cousins of some sort).
Do I think december should be banned? No, I don’t. But I do sometimes wish that moderators would step in to caution him when his pattern of shameless dodging and digression is at its most trollish–which really does damage the quality of GD IMO, especially with new people joining all the time and seeing december’s threads as an example. My other suggestion would be a new board function that allows posters to start only one new thread per week: that would be useful for a number of cases I can think of.
Failing that, I think it’s important to not take december too seriously–especially since he does not take himself very seriously. I don’t like it when his threads get too ugly, with too many people piling on to degrade him (which he mainly enjoys and which mainly degrades those who pile on). It seems to me as though more than 50% (maybe more than 75%) of the time, december is the only person in one of his threads who is arguing his position. So it’s kind of sad to see too many people get too carried away defending tactics that he himself uses mainly to prolong an otherwise indefensible set of propositions. (Though I admit it’s hard to know exactly when to stop; for me I stop when I find I’m getting too bored to answer his post–when it starts to feel like work and I start to think, hey, I could be doing work right now.)
I should add that at bottom there’s something I like about december. I feel that there is a human being there, somewhere in New Jersey, with a live mind that the teacher in me would dearly love to reach (with electrodes if nothing else 
). Seriously, though, I really wish it were possible to force december to read one book per week on a non-partisan topic; and I’d also like to see him spend some time volunteering in a head-start classroom. I feel he’d have a much richer retirement were he to do so.
You know, this may be a hijack of a sort, but I have this occasional nightmare that I’m somehow related to december and will accidentally discover him at a family wedding or something. It not an insane proposition; I am originally a nice Jewish girl from New Jersey, after all, and basically my entire extended family still lives in the NY/NJ area.
Similarly, I have occasional frightening thoughts that, perhaps, my dad is december…except my dad is far more vulgar.
And coming down to it, the way december writes doesn’t appear offensive, due to the lack of obvious flames or insults…but I think that’s a ruse, an attempt to hide his offensive beliefs, or malicious intent, if you will. To save his ass from being banned.
I occasionally agree with points he brings up. I share a similar political leaning, though I do try and keep an open mind about things for consideration, but frankly…I’m fucking tired of december’s continuing and blatant disregard for objectivity.
That brings up a question in my mind.
While I am a decent speller, I don’t always preview and make my share of mistakes because of that.
But I think that I’ve noticed of late that december is misspelling more and more words. Or did I just quit reading him for a few months, and now that I’ve returned, I’m noticing it.
Has anyone else picked up on this, or just my imagination.
Bah, originally written in Cyrillic so I will take liberties.
As for Shodan, my dim witted ideological yammering fool, the full quote was “That is possibly the stupidest and silliest assertion I have ever seen. On the basis of this alone I name this idjit a nitwit.” In the context of the extent thread, at the time where is was but the blogger who made an assertion and december actually differed with it to some extent, it is fairly clear to anyone who has mastered joined up reading and managed to pass somewhere beyond elementary school learning that this in now way refers to december – who in any case has a large body of evidence to support the conclusion he is or can be an idjit, but that’s a seperate issue for which the current thread was opened, per the rules as we all know. It is sometimes helpful to remember that others can hold more than one opinion and even, get this, thought in their heads.
Now I realize you’re quite stupid, and beyond stupid, bloody blinkered and fairly incapable of managing to hold more than a glimmer of a rational thought, but there it is. Of course your droolingly stupid attempt to smear and combine the two seperate statements - three actually if we’re counting slowly for you – speaks nicely to your idiocy, sub-standard reading skills and general thoughtless yammering.
So, fairly clear now idiot boy?
Perhaps so, but some of us actually do things at the weekend, and for some reason I don’t take my laptop hiking with me. Anyway it’s monday morning and here we are so lets get back to your nonsense, namely:
So what exactly am I to comment on here? You accuse London_Calling of being a tinfoil-hatted anti-Semitic bigot on the basis that he noted that a number of newspapers and magazines have jewish owners and investors, even though he stated that he didn’t see any conspiracy, just good business practice. Jack, that’s just fucking stupid. I’m amazed L_C didn’t pit you on the spot for such an unfounded accusation.
A cursory knowledge? You presumptious fuck, I have more than that. If he’d concluded that this ownership actually was being used to influence then your comparison would be relevant, but here you’ve just created a strawman.
You really are fucking imbecilic, aren’t you. He didn’t give an example, because he didn’t claim that such a thing happened. Neither did he insinutate. He made a statement of fact, and then explicitly said that You’ve created ludicrous strawmen to accuse him with, then tried to lambast him for not providing examples for these strawmen. And here you do it again:
And again with the strawmen. It really is fucking easy to attack people on things they’ve never said isn’t it. Frankly, I’m fucking appalled by the unfounded racism you’ve shown against…ooh, let me pick one at random…the dutch. I can’t believe that you’ve made claims about their necrophiliac tendencies without citing any examples. See how easy this game is?
No, I might ask why some people are such paranoid fuckheads with a persecution complex. Go learn yourself.
I didn’t because – in my judgment, rightly or wrongly - Jack Klugman/mannii is, like his partner Tony Randall/december, his own worst advocate; I doubt anyone can read him on this subject and not think of the underlying attempt at intimidation and not apply that in a wider context. This is now, I think, the fourth time he’s brought up the exact same thread (and he has 3 years and 4,000 posts of mine to choose from) and made the same under-whelming (strawmen) points. It’s been great value. Period.
Talking of which - asking for about the fourth time - while you’re here Jack Klugman/mannii, would you care to dispel my ignorance – and I‘m extremely happy to be corrected if you have any facts - by clarifying which of the below sample is not controlled by pro-Israeli interests; you’d be doing a service to anyone else reading as well ?
The New York Times
The Wall Street Journal
The Washington Post
Boston Globe
International Herald Tribune
Time
Newsweek
- come on, Jack, help me and the board out with a few facts, here ?
Btw, for anyone reading and who is interested; my point in that much-cited thread was that the influence of the pro-Israeli lobby (in relation to the media) is not so much important because it influences how Israel is portrayed in the US (although it is a factor), but, rather, because it heavily influences how presidents, and those seeking the presidency, are portrayed to the electorate – anyone seeking office has to play the game with the pro-Israeli lobby regardless of their political persuasion (unlike other lobby groups like, for example, the NRA who are party partisan from the outset).
In this way, the deal (in relation to Israeli policy) is done before the election with both potential winners.
Ftr, a few **domestic moments ** for december and spooky Jackmannii – in that top shot, december is on the right (no surprise there!) with the trendy shirt.
Finally, from Jack Klugman/mannii: “So much for some wizened, hook-nosed little old Jew on a throne somewhere in the newsroom, cracking his whip and forcing reporters and editors to write pieces favorable to Israel.” - Yowza! All that because I disagree with your co-star and racist / race hate inciter / liar, as well as his apologist IzzyR, about the extent of pro-Israeli influence in the US media ?
I think you might have issues, Jack.
Certainly London Calling, it has to be said that the media (in general terms) can be an incredibly manipulative tool - which is one of the reasons why “one party states” (with nothing but state owned media) manage to convince their citizens that things are true, even in the face of outstandingly contrary logic.
I would add, LC, I dig your posts buddy. You call a spade a spade and you don’t have a problem with standing corrected if someone manages to do such a thing.
I’d respectfully suggest that your list of esteemed US publications might not “quite” be as far reaching as you’ve offered, however, equally true - inarguably so - is the conclusion that the pro-Israeli lobby WITHIN the United States is infinitely more persuasive than the pro-Arabic lobby. And as such, you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to work out how such a state of play would affect the deals which are cut at a political level in the lead up to an election - no doubts about that.
It has to be said though… as in all things in life in general - you can force someone to do what you want against their will, or you can persuade them to do so by convincing them that it’s in their best interests. In this context, I feel rather comfortable in asserting that the Arab World has done a dreadful job over the last 50 years in stating their case. Indeed, a cynic could argue that if they COULD have gone about things in a worse way, shit knows how they coulda pulled it off.
Coll will back me up here I’m hoping, but consider for a moment King Hussein of Jordan in the 1967 Six Day War. The IDF had dealt total KILLER blows to the Air Forces, and the tank divisions of both Egypt AND Syria within just 2 days into the affair. Nonetheless, King Hussein foolishly believed Egypt’s Nassir assertions in a one on one phone call that Egypt had kicked Israel’s butt on a scale only matched by the recent claims by Iraq’s Information Minisiter (God Bless 'im).
What was the reason for Nassir’s claims? And his woeful efforts at manipulation? Oh, I’d suggest pure spite actually. And veritible shitload of other political motivations. Certainly, Nassir’s efforts convinced King Hussein to launch a Jordanian assault on Israel’s western flank. A stupid move. A tragic, ugly, crazy, stupid move. The result? Jerusalem, and the West Bank ended up as controlled territories and we have the shit fight that we have today.
King Hussein later stated quite publicly “I only did it because Nassir convinced me that all of the news footage and press reports were bullshit - I’d have never launched that attack otherwise…”
Well, I put it to you King Hussein… what a fucking fool YOU were huh? I mean seriously? You actually believed Nassir’s total lies about the true state of play and committed your forces to a suicide mission based on that ONE phone call? Holy Fuck? Just what sort of “long term foresight” did you posses? Can anyone say, “Well duh!”
My point is this… such actions all add up to the history of Arab actions which fall into the “Ooops we went about that the wrong way really, didn’t we?” department… and here in the Western World, particularly in the USA, there is very little (if any) pro-MENA lobbying power which can somehow claw back the ground which was lost through such tactical choices.
My take on it is this… the pro-Israeli lobby in the USA is undeniably powerful - not because they’re particulary good at it - simply because they’ve got a total abscence of any decent competition.
London_Calling, none of your examples are “controlled by pro-Israeli interests”.
Well gee, Mojo, thanks for the convincing argument and facts. Problem is, even our resident racist / race hate inciting / liar disagrees with you. Last he posted on the subject the NYT was so “controlled” – and I’d never disagree with him !
Thanks ** Boo Boo Foo**, if you’ve got any spares for the World Cup, I’m on the next plane ! ……
Anyway, I feel my work here is done 
Probably won’t need to post again to this thread unless to thank someone for their factual corrections to my above post.
Ta ta.
I see- you automatically equate having a Jewish chairman with being “controlled by pro-Israeli interests”? You’re the one making the assertion that these news orgs are controlled by pro-Israeli interests, you back it up. And while we’re at it, you were asked for a cite about december saying that “other lives weren’t worth as much as Jewish lives” back on page 1 of this thread which you’ve ignored. And in every post since you’ve called him some variation of “proven racist/race hate inciting/liar” (what “race” is it that he’s inciting hate against?) without proof. So I suggest you make your case with cites or kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP.
That would depend on what your definition of the word ‘is’, is.
In ‘now’ way? What was that about elementary school learning?
Which would seem to imply that you were aiming the ‘idjit’ remark at december. Since you opened this thread to advocate the idea, which you seemed to implying in your earlier response.
Sorry, too many big words for me.
Possibly my reading and comprehension skills might be below par. Possibly also, there might be just one or two teeny-weeny little issues with someone else’s writing and expression skills.
Which might lead to misunderstandings.
Regards,
Shodan
Perhaps he didn’t because he remembered the little gem I quoted earlier and which you deliberately ignore, namely:
*"The media in the US would be…interested in the subject. And may even form an opinion. Possibly one not wholly inconsistent with the views of their investors and owners. Would public opinion be influenced to side against that politician ?
Now there’s a question!"*
Yes, our tinfoil-hatted bigot does indeed insinutate (sic) that Jews control the U.S. media and foment a pro-Israeli policy. He’s done so repeatedly, up to and including the very post following yours (interestingly, he’s now switched to labelling his Big List of media as being “controlled by pro-Israeli interests”, rather than drooling over names of Jewish board members. Is this progress?). Despite having been asked repeatedly for cites showing that reporters and editors on the publications he names have been forced to kowtow to a pro-Israeli line, he has been unable to come up with one, retreating into name-calling, irrelevant links and mad escapes for the weekend*.
**
See above, dumbshit.
*And speaking of mad dashes off to weekend larks, I notice that you did the same right after being asked for a comment. On a point you are still failing to address.
See, Gary, I’ve run into this with you before. You’re very insistent that other posters answer all your points immediately, in the exact way you want, and you’re hell on wheels until you get your way. Then, however, if an uncomfortable question comes your way, you’re suddenly missing in action.
I would still like a response.
LC, congratulations on surviving the weekend while escaping the clutches of the Cabal™! I heard they almost got you on Saturday, but the matzoh ball cluster bomb misfired (serves you right for being dumb enough to try to cadge free drinks at the Star of David Pub).
Still making lists and checking them twice? Good, good.
You know, of course, that your miraculous escape this past weekend was mere luck. To be safe in the future requires more than that. For a small commission, I can steer you to a site that offers a special on Mylar-reflective beanies with the special reverse polarity propeller.
And I highly recommend the optional lead-lined long johns.
Jack, are you saying that it is impossible for the owners and investors in a newspaper to influence the slant that the paper takes on reporting news?
Do you honestly believe that? I can assure you it’s not the case. Or does your remark only apply to those members of staff “active in voicing opinions on the matter of banning [of december]”?
In any case, I’d say our staff is pretty equally spread across the political spectrum. Some I’d definitely qualify as conservative, and some I’d qualify as liberal (myself included, I suppose). I’m honestly curious how one comes to the conclusion that the SD staff is somehow predominantly conservative.
Well, Dex is Jewish. While no one can be excused for misrepresenting facts à la december, it’s also understandable that someone who’s Jewish in either the religious or the ethnic sense is a little more “involved”, for lack of a better word, in the Israel/Palestine debate than your average impartial bystander. This doesn’t necessarily imply malice: for some, the issue is more emotional than for others. If you have examples of Dex practising the same sort of tactics as we’ve come to know and loathe from our pal december, then please bring them forward. If you can’t, then I submit that lumping him into the december basket just because he happens to be pro-Israel is rather unfair.