Spoilers please, Astral.
Oh dammit to hades twice.
Rest well, MentalGuy. That meteor swarm must’ve hurt.
BTW, I’m not sure I’m a fan of having an extra night since we can’t do anything with it. Seems like it’s rewarding the scum more than townies. OTOH I guess it does give us an extra day of strategizing, so that’s useful.
(OOG: Hope you had a good time at the zoo, Astral. I find it awesome that people still go to zoos! Old school. Also, good job on the color. :))
I live in Saint Louis. Our zoo is not only completely awesome, but also completely free! Today was an great day to get outside.
So the silver lining to that is that we now know Weedy and gnarly are the scum, right? I’ll take that.
duh! if i were scum, would i have left myself open by not double voting?
in other news, i was NKd in Mystery Mafia. so you get my attention here for one more Day.Very possibly; the idea works for me. I’ve already made a case for both Weedy and gnarlycharlie – they’re the lowest on my trustometer not counting Inner Stickler. In gnarly’s favor is that he did leave himself pretty open by not locking his vote. Then again,he may have just done that to give himself the excuse; perhaps he was waiting in the wings, counting votes carefully, and realized that MentalGuy reached the higher count first.
Weedy’s sudden turning against me and MentalGuy yesterday was unusual behavior; she’s accused me of changing up my gameplay over the past couple of weeks, but her own posts haven’t exactly been filling up the thread either – until the last few days. The only survivor with fewer posts (66) is USCDiver (54).
Speaking of whom, out of curiosity Stanislaus, why are you ruling out USCDiver? He double-voted Mental too. It’s true that if you look at the infamous Day Five voting list, he’s on the Red skeezix side. But weren’t we assuming that at least one scum voted for Red (other than Red himself? Looking at the list, it’s all townies, you, me and Diver. (I suppose for the sake of objectivity I also should ask you why you’re ruling me out.)
And I remain really worried about Inner. Could you please talk me down off the ledge about why it’s absolutely impossible for him to be faking his doctorhood? Let me run down my case about his behavior one last time:
[spoiler]- DAY ONE: No vote.
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DAY TWO: #610: voted Silver Jan
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DAY THREE: #888: voted septimus; #1210: unvoted Septimus; #1210: voted TexCat 2x (lock)
Note: vote on septimus was 1st thing in the morning. unvote/vote for TexCat was right at the end of day. No explanation of vote change.
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DAY FOUR: #1440: voted septimus 2x (lock) (big deal, that was the official “Let’s Bus Septimus” day.)
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DAY FIVE: #1978: voted ShadowFacts 2x (lock)
note: no explanation other than “I’m not so easily misled”
- DAY SIX: #2378: voted choie 2x (lock)
note: no explanation given other than “ugh.”
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NIGHT EIGHT: claims he chose pizza to protect; didn’t work, pizza murdered
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DAY SEVEN: absent except for brief posting at Dawn explaining that he was blocked from protecting pizza; disappears for rest of Day, doesn’t vote.
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NIGHT EIGHT: didn’t bother to place any protection on anyone
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DAY EIGHT: Doesn’t show up to discuss, vote or explain what happened on Night Eight until final hours before Dusk; Then claims he didn’t bother to protect anyone at all last Night, and tosses a vote on MentalGuy citing no reason other than Normal Phase being able to sniff out scum, which sadly hasn’t been quite true for this game (other than septimus).
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CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE: Played a paranoid doc in his last game, in which our mod Astral played as well. Is it likely that Astral gave Inner the same role?
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ARGUMENT FOR THE DEFENSE: No one else is counterclaiming him, which means either we don’t have a doctor at all, or Inner speaks the truth. His claiming doc when there’s a possibility of another doctor around would have been suicidal unless he was able to bluff rather brilliantly. Another possible argument: maybe he’s just not a very good doctor. Third possible argument: maybe he’s just not that into this game.[/spoiler]
I haven’t heard your opinion on this theory. Speaking as a townsperson of De’endee, it’s a terrifying proposition to think that one’s own town doctor is either inept or negligent or lying about his credentials altogether – but those seem to be the only three possibilities that explain Doc Stickler’s behavior.
Have you played with Inner Stickler before? Is this similar to how he’s played in past games?
I particularly want your opinion because I think it’s all too likely that you’re gonna be the designated NK. You or Inner, assuming I’m wrong about him. And we’re at Lynch or Lose as of toMorrow, aren’t we? Gadzooks.
Um, hello there? I see some names online who maybe we could use in here, doing some strategizing before one of us is murdered in our beds. Weedy? Stanislaus? USCDiver? gnarlycharlie? Inner Stickler (as if)?
C;mon guys, one of us is gonna be dead in 24 hours and we’ll be at Lynch or Lose. What are our plans if this happens? You do NOT want to leave strategy to me for Gary Gygax’s sake!
so why didn’t i save myself? weedy predicted a vote shift by you and was right. weedy also said she wouldn’t be around EOD but was. lot of hinky stuff around. at least i was around during the last hours (plural) rather than appearing EOD when i couldn’t save myself. it only slightly worse than septimus. you just chose to preface your vote just like a good writer. what about the others voting for MentalGuy? they get a free pass?
bah!
don’t rely on the green light. some people leave their computers on or they’re in other parts of the board.
I just gave my guess as to why – perhaps you knew you weren’t needed to save yourself. MentalGuy reached the high score first. You held yourself in abeyance just in case someone else shifted, but as it turned out, it wasn’t necessary.
OH if only, if only we could harness Weedy’s genius prognosticating skills! Why, you’d almost think that she’d read me say something like…
(Italics added now to emphasize the point, since apparently my posts are hard to parse – see below. ;))
A free pass??! Am I really writing in a vacuum here? Did I not just ask Stanislaus:
Geeze, I know I’m wordy as hell, but it was right in the quote you just quoted!
And I also harped on Inner Stickler of all people, who also voted MentalGuy for spurious reasons.
Their being on other parts of the board ain’t no excuse for any good townie. Especially if other parts of the board include another Mafia game, hmph! 
I still think you are scum, choie, though I’m not sure who your partner is yet.
Your vote on Mental Guy was extremely tentative. That is my point. But you waited to EoD to change it, so you could see how the lynches were panning out. Then you change at the last minute, and justify it by saying it was only a weak vote anyway. That is what I thought you would do, and what you did do.
Heh, I see you and your likely scumbuddy are still acting as if you made a brilliant guess. You “thought” I would do it because I said I would probably do it, way back when I voted him in the first place! Not just once but twice, including when I first voted him, I warned that it probably wouldn’t last the Day. Please stop pretending this was some out-of-nowhere decision on my part. All along I said I trusted MentalGuy (marginally) more than gnarlycharlie and you. The fact that everyone who was on the MentalGuy train except for USCDiver is on my list of ‘least trustworthy players’ pushed me to make the switch and go with my gut.
Also? MentalGuy was town. You’re trying to have it both ways. First I was trying to save him 'cause he was my scumbuddy. Now you have to rewrite that script since you were dead wrong about him. (Or, if you’re scum, because the truth you knew all along has been revealed.) So I guess you’re saying I voted gnarlycharlie because… well, I don’t know. Maybe you’re opining that I did it to look innocent. But that would be a ridiculously risky move if I were trying to lynch Mental, since there was enough time for Inner to get off his tuchas and unvote Mental.
Nope. Like it or not, you, m’dear, are the one who put the nail in MentalGuy’s coffin. If you’re Town, take responsibility for it. If you’re scum, hopefully you’ll swing for it.
in your other post you were only asking Stanislaus. why does he get a free pass? sure Weedy saved me but your septimus-like voting is the problem. it’s not just the votes that you have to consider but also the context.
your argument that i thought i was safe doesn’t hold water. if i were scum, i definitely would have been up at EOD. why are you looking at me? because i was the other wagon? we’ve all seen instances where both lynch leaders were both town. i’m guessing there was scum pushing both wagons. it’s even possible that you and weedy could well be scum both trying to get town cred.
i’ll check again when it’s Day. i don’t see why i have to discuss NOW. logically, i’m sure to be alive. either i’m scum or a good lynch.
OK, here’s what I’m thinking:
I pushed gnarly nearer to the lynch to see what that shook out. When we got to 6-4, choie tied it up. Then Weedy appears, and pushed Mental. choie pushes back and Weedy goes all-in and re-votes Mental. Remember that despite the tie, Mental was still due for the lynch, owing to having reached the total first. So Weedy could well have sat tight. At this point, it’s fair to conclude that Weedy really cares about either lynching Mental or saving gnarly.
Now, it could be just that Weedy feels she has a really strong read on Mental and/or is leaning town on gnarly. But voting so hard when she didn’t even have to suggests she must have had a stronger reason than that.
I think Weedy was saving her scumbuddy. I think that because there’s no reason for a scum Weedy to stick her neck out so far to get one townie lynched rather than another. But it does make sense if gnarly is also scum -** and the roleblocker**. If the roleblocker were lynched then not only would scum be down to their last player, but Inner would be a serious problem for them. So it makes sense that scum would take a big risk to protect the roleblocker.
As for gnarly not being there at EOD, his vote on Mental made it 5-2, and if he stuck around for another 24 minutes he saw Inner make it 6-2. That probably felt pretty safe. It wasn’t until one hour before EOD that votes for gnarly came in, so you might well have thought you were in no danger of lynch. Plus, if you knew Weedy was going to be around, you may have thought that would be all the cover you need.
On Diver - I’m now less suspicious of him than of Weedy and gnarly, but one thing I don’t like from today is that his vote was simply based on what Normal said. It’s not very accountable and there’s (clearly) no guarantee that Normal was right. So scum could use it as an easy way to vote for town with a built in excuse. The other strong negative against him is Day 5, when he didn’t double-vote Red and Shadow got lynched. It could have made all the difference - killed Red earlier *and *saved us a mislynch. Otherwise his vote record looks pretty good. So on the whole I’m leaning slightly town.
On choie - I think the renewed impetus she’s given the game has been generally pro-Town. The case on Inner strikes me as something that only town would do - there isn’t going to be a lynch of Inner short of a counter-claim by a Doc, and scum aren’t likely to waste time and draw potential fire by going after a confirmed power-role. Especially as Inner’s power has been neutralised.
On Inner - I believe Suburban, I believe the absence of counter-claim, I believe the night actions make sense with Inner as Doc. If he is fooling us, then hats off.
That is not what happened. I already had a vote on Mental Guy. I didn’t double vote him until after choie voted for gnarlycharlie. It just looks like I voted him twice then, because I hadn’t unvoted choie before the first one and I wanted it to be all clear and official that, yes I was putting a second vote on Mental Guy.
And yes, I did care about lynching Mental Guy, after my main suspect jumped in to save him, when I thought they were scumbuddies together.
Here’s what I said about that at the time, I was pressed for time and didn’t think it would matter when it was about 2 hours prior to the end of the Day. A lot happened after I left.
Hmm. OK - it not being a double-vote waters down my case a little. But it still looks a lot like you were determined to keep gnarly out of trouble. It’s exactly what I hoped to see when I pushed a second suspect - a flinch in the face of risk.
What do you think of choie now that Mental is town? What do you think of gnarly?
I’m confused – you didn’t say it was a double vote. You said:
… Which is what happened. Except I then voted gnarlycharlie after her again to tie it up, which still meant Mental was due for the noose, but there were still 15 minutes left and I was hoping someone who hadn’t locked yet (e.g. Inner) would see the light and switch to gnarlycharlie.
So yeah, Mental’s flip means nothing to her. The script is written – she was gonna claim I’m scum no matter which way he flipped.
Back to gnarly – He returned 20 minutes after EOD acting as if he’d lost the vote and lamenting that he hadn’t been able to save himself – though the count had already been stated as a tie with Mental having reached no-man’s-land first. That sounds like base-covering to me. “Look how innocent I am, I couldn’t even be bothered to vote to save myself or keep track of the votes!”
Or maybe he is innocent and couldn’t be bothered to keep track of the votes.
septimus voted at 6:59 to save himself. I voted at 6:45 to protect someone else, leaving time open for somene like you or Inner to change their vote. Hardly septimusy. Maybe if I’d been smarter I would’ve waited until last minute so Weedy wouldn’t have been able to place her vote that killed a townie.
As to why I’m giving Stanislaus a free pass, it’s basically because to me, he’s the most trustworthy person left in the game, aside from myself. His behavior has been nearly exemplary for a townie. If he’s scum (ideally partnered with Inner for optimal level of irony), he’s earned his win.
Huh? I’ve been looking at you for several Days now, as you should know. Plus, as you said yourself, “don’t trust that little green light.” I don’t remember if you were online or offline at EOD, and even if that little green light was off, there’s no reason you couldn’t have been logged out watching the game making sure you weren’t needed. Perhaps unlikely but with this game one has to consider all options.
USCDiver, if you’re around now: what are your thoughts on the remainin survivors? By which I mean, where do you stack the rest of us, on your personal scumometer? (If you’ve already rated us, my apologies – could you link me to the post if you have a chance?)
FWIW, my thoughts still go (from most townie to least): Stanislaus, you, Inner, gnarly, and Weedy, though I could exchange Weedy and gnarly easily.
It’s hard to know where to put Inner. If I go by Received Wisdom, he should be first. If I go by my gut instincts, he’d be last. Hence his middle placement – I like to be fair. 
Anyway, the Night is nearly over and one of us De’endeeites will probably be dead. In the unlikely event that it’s me*, I hope the other townies will look very carefully at those I’ve accused, because the only way I see myself being “dangerous” to the Lords is if I’m striking a nerve.
*No one pays attention to my conspiracy theories (I’ve taken over pizza’s Cassandra role) so it’s not as if I’m influencing anyone.
Day starts in an hour and 10 minutes. Get your paranoia caps ready!
Heh. My paranoia cap has been affixed to my head for a couple weeks now.