De'endee Mafia

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Suburban_Plankton

Also, how much of your case are you willing to make dependent on color? Around these parts, the general rule is “color is just color”.

:smack: Well, you were doing so well. I was actually starting to question my read on you.

That above quote is not the response I expect.

After Inner Stickler flips scum, Red Skeezix should assassinate you. Then we lynch choie.

Game over.

[LightFoot]

@Normal_Phase

@ Weedy:

A town vig who knows he is doubted and wants to prove his good intentions probably does not block a vanilla player at all, because such a block is trivial to fake. (Unless there are watchers or trackers around, but there have been no signs of them.) And he probably doesn’t block ATPG at all after yesterday (as I said, a block of me woudl have been slightly more convincing). It’s too low odds that he’s scum at all, much less scum and the killer. (Even having gotten the no-scum-kill night that would be Shadow’s presumed goal as a townie, he doesn’t try to go there on ATPG. So why bother?)

However, a scum trying to fake a block has trouble shooting blind, because he doesn’t know where all the power roles are. What if he “targets” someone who can contradict him? So that’s why scum faking blocks will go for vanillas if they have no other safe options, and why town often won’t, absent strong suspicion.

You are interchanging “vig” and “block” and you’ve lost me here?

[LightFoot]

@Red_Skeezix

I targetted Pedescribe last night.
(I know someone said not to shoot him last night, but I don’t take orders on power usage from not-even-a-little-bit confirmed players, sorry.)

Reasoning:

1. He’s not around and it’s too late for him to sub out.
2. Since he’s not posting it’s unlikely that we’ll get any info out of him.
3. I figured that he was unlikely to be protected by anyone, giving me the greatest chance to prove my power.
4. Someone said not to, don’t recall who. I can be pretty contrarian sometimes.
   (That last one’s a joke.)

vote ShadowFacts

I don’t believe that you targetted Pizza last night.

What possible reason is there that * Anyone * protected a Town pedescribe?
(and how many protectors/blockers have we got here?)

1 our absent ** pedescribe** has a role (strongman etc) that “blocked” the kill (sometimes colour is just colour)= no alignment obvious
2 our absent ** pedescribe** is Scum and a Scum role protected them because they aren’t participating * and so a likely target ? (would Scum do that?)
3 our absent ** pedescribe* is Town and our Scum “Vig” wanted to throw us a **Red ** Herring. =could be brilliant
4 Where was I = I’m thinking in circles

Scum can’t NKill/ Vig’s can’t Vig/ Detectives can’t detect and blockers block Vanilla?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Lightfoot, in short, **ShadowFacts **blocked me using his final magic spell for blocking.
The **paranoid doctor **protected you last night. The **scums **shot at you anyway.
The Scum roleblocker blocked Red Skeezix, preventing Skeezix from hitting any more members of their team, even though Skeezix targeted Pedescribe instead of Suburban Plankton or Inner Stickler.

That’s my reading on the matter, if you trust me. It’s my theory, so don’t accept it as factual.

Defenders of De’endee : lynch Inner Stickler.
Lightfoot: scan choie.
Paranoid doctor : protect Lightfoot. Scans won’t be needed, really. Nor will I be.
Red Skeezix : kill Suburban Plankton.
Town Coroner, if any : Take a break. You won’t be needed either.
ShadowFacts : My apologies.

[LightFoot]

A Town ** Shadowfacts ** would be making an odd choice blocking ** ATPG ** who basically claimed Vanilla Town.
( it was not a mandatory role)
But then again a Scum ** Shadowfacts ** could “claim” to block said vanilla and still have the block in reserve (no way to verify) But to what end?

I’m getting dizzy
@ ** ATPG ** If I didn’t know you were Town I would really question you on your turnaround on ** Red ** A Vig that Kills NO ONE? Prior to claim?

[Askthepizzaguy]

@LightFoot

I’m getting dizzy
@ ** ATPG ** If I didn’t know you were Town I would really question you on your turnaround on ** Red ** A Vig that Kills NO ONE? Prior to claim?

Remember, ShadowFacts has stated that Red Skeezix tried to kill him.

Either they’re both lying, ShadowFacts is lying, Red Skeezix is mafia and ShadowFacts is townie, or Red Skeezix is a vigilante.

If Red Skeezix is a vigilante, then his results (magical block, non-magical block) indicate that ShadowFacts is telling the truth.

ShadowFacts and Red Skeezix have inadvertently proven each other innocent, while trying to kill each other.

[LightFoot]

TYVM pizza but i would like to read what ** shadowfacts ** might say about my comments

[Askthepizzaguy]

I may not be making myself clear. It happens a lot.

Okay, let me start again:
[ul]
[li]If Red Skeezix and ShadowFacts are both mafia-[/li][/ul]

1. Red bussed septimus, and is now bussing ShadowFacts as well, and they’ve elected not to kill any townies to accomplish this magnificent maneuver of stupidity.

2. ShadowFacts also bussed Red Skeezix. They’re not trying to win townie points, they’re trying to make each other DEAD and NOT TRUSTED.Discard this theory.

[ul]
[li]If ShadowFacts is Mafia and ****Red Skeezix is townie-[/li][/ul]

1. Red Skeezix’ results show that ShadowFacts used magic to block Red Skeezix the night prior, BUT DID NOT use magic to block Red Skeezix last night. Instead, ShadowFacts was blocking someone else.

2. **ShadowFacts **and his mates didn’t kill Red Skeezix, or myself… or anyone else. And he also didn’t personally block Red Skeezix. That makes sense considering *insert imaginary reasoning here.*Discard this theory.

[ul]
[li]If ShadowFacts is townie and ****Red Skeezix is mafia-[/li][/ul]

1. Red Skeezix wasted a murder to bus septimus, and he nearly got lynched himself for his trouble.

2. Red Skeezix did the silly thing and tried to murder ShadowFacts personally, instead of someone else doing it, allowing himself to be blocked.

3. Red Skeezix wasted another murder, putting his life in danger again and making no progress, to lynch ShadowFacts, instead of killing townies himself. And then, he’s okay with being lynched when ShadowFacts flips townie.

4. Red Skeezix also make up all his results, so he was the one who wrote that he was blocked by magic the first time, and blocked by getting his ass kicked the second time. That’s all on him.Discard this theory.

[ul]
[li]If ShadowFacts is townie and ****Red Skeezix is townie-[/li][/ul]

1. ShadowFacts blocked Red Skeezix, that’s why he couldn’t kill the night prior.

2. Someone besides ShadowFacts blocked Red Skeezix last night, that’s why he couldn’t kill then.

3. Red Skeezix attacked the godfather beguiler, that’s why he couldn’t kill N2.

4. Red Skeezix was inactive N1, I believe that. Look at his lack of posts for like 5 days.

5. Red Skeezix’ results show he was trying to kill ShadowFacts, and then pedescribe, but was blocked by two different sources.

6. ShadowFacts’ results show Red Skeezix was trying to kill him, but ShadowFacts personally stopped it from happening.

7. ShadowFacts’ results show that I was doing nothing last night.

8. Lightfoot has consistently been blocked since her claim, either by a scum roleblocker or the paranoid doctor.

9. The scum roleblocker was busy blocking Red Skeezix last night. Lightfoot was protected.

10. The scums attacked Lightfoot or didn’t attack at all, hoping Red or ShadowFacts would be lynched today, and the other tomorrow.This is the only theory that makes any sense.

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Askthepizzaguy

Remember, ShadowFacts has stated that Red Skeezix tried to kill him.

You keep saying this, and indeed **Shadow **said it when he announced he had blocked Red, but that doesn’t mean it makes any more sense now than it did then.

If **Shadow **is Town, there’s no way he could have known **Red **was trying to kill him (or anyone, for that matter). And if **Shadow **was Scum, there’s still no way he could have known who **Red **was targeting.

Yes, **Red **did confirm later that he was trying to kill Shadow, but there’s no way **Shadow **could have known that when he first said it.

I’m not really sure this has any bearing on the rest of your argument, but it’s been bugging me every time you’ve said it.

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Askthepizzaguy

:smack: Well, you were doing so well. I was actually starting to question my read on you.

That above quote is not the response I expect.

After Inner Stickler flips scum, Red Skeezix should assassinate you. Then we lynch choie.

Game over.

<sigh>

Sometimes I don’t know why I even try to talk to you anymore…
When this game is over, do you think you could host a Q&A session so that the rest of us can finally understand just what the heck you’re talking about when you make statements like this?

Or is it really just me?

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Suburban_Plankton

You keep saying this, and indeed **Shadow **said it when he announced he had blocked Red, but that doesn’t mean it makes any more sense now than it did then.

What makes no sense?

So I take it you’re ‘skeptical’ of their claims, or one of their claims. Very well.

Red Skeezix said he attacked ShadowFacts. ShadowFacts says Red Skeezix attacked ShadowFacts. They both agree that Red attacked ShadowFacts.

Therefore, unless both of them are lying, one of them is telling the truth.

Now, are you suggesting they’re both lying? Great, because that’s going to lead to a second scum death in a row, at the scum’s OWN HANDS. They’d both be septimus’ partner if that’s the case. So Red bussed Septimus, and Septimus bussed Red, and now Shadow and Red are bussing each other and doing a heck of a job making everyone but me think they’re guilty.

Therefore, one of them is telling the truth.

That means the townie among them agrees, that Red Skeezix attacked ShadowFacts.

That’s not in dispute.

If **Shadow **is Town, there’s no way he could have known **Red **was trying to kill him (or anyone, for that matter). And if **Shadow **was Scum, there’s still no way he could have known who **Red **was targeting.

So, Shadow blocking Skeezix murdering him as townie could never happen without prior knowledge?

So, Skeezix attacking ShadowFacts who blocked him as mafia could never happen without prior knowledge?

Yes, **Red **did confirm later that he was trying to kill Shadow, but there’s no way **Shadow **could have known that when he first said it.

Unless of course, Shadow’s results said the person who he blocked was trying to come after him. Which, by the way, is what they say. And because the ritual is magic-based, it caused no harm to Red Skeezix’ body.

The same move was not performed on Skeezix the next night, and Skeezix has different results. If Skeezix was trying to frame ShadowFacts, the results would have been nearly identical. They wouldn’t have had such GLARING differences.

I’m not really sure this has any bearing on the rest of your argument, but it’s been bugging me every time you’ve said it.

And now my question to you is why. You yourself unvoted Red Skeezix this round. You’re not voting for ShadowFacts.

So what’s the dealio?

You trust Red Skeezix enough to buy his claim, but you’re not reading what he says?

He SAYS there were two different kinds of blocks that happened to him. This matches ShadowFacts’ story.

Then, you said this:

Also, how much of your case are you willing to make dependent on color? Around these parts, the general rule is “color is just color”

Demonstrating an eagerness to just dismiss the color. The color that comes from the very person you suggest you’re willing to give the benefit of the doubt to, by unvoting said person.

Why would you do that?

The color is wildly different in both cases. You cannot mean to tell me the game hosts simply made some completely contradictory stuff up because they were feeling creative.

Spell book. Magic tendrils. Waking up feeling refreshed. Didn’t take his boots off. He was wearing them while chasing a guy he never stabbed.

Sore, tired, no spell book. Huge welt on his forehead. Sweaty. He was obviously in a physical fight.

I can understand that color is color SOMETIMES, but you don’t discard the whole thing. You don’t toss out the baby with the bath water.

When this game is over, do you think you could host a Q&A session so that the rest of us can finally understand just what the heck you’re talking about when you make statements like this?

When you were so quick to discard the color as meaningless, when you’ve read it, and you’ve read where I’ve pointed out the color is wildly different in the two examples, that tells me you’re not being honest.

Dishonesty in this context means you’re guilty.

[Inner_Stickler]

@Askthepizzaguy

Why haven’t you placed a vote yet, Inner Stickler? The round is now two days in, and nothing?

I’ve been thinking. When the day started, and Red claimed he was blocked, I was pretty sure that Shadowfacts had done it and the scum had attempted to kill a protected lightfoot which was why there was no kill last night. But then Shadowfacts says he targeted you which means someone else blocked Skeezix. But I finally reached level three and was able to protect Lightfoot without blocking her last night.* So someone else has been blocking her or correctly guessed that the doc would be leveled up enough to not be paranoid last night. Who would block Lightfoot? The scum most likely. But then who blocked Red? Scum? They have two roleblockers? Or is Red lying? If that’s the case, I want him dead. Scum wouldn’t both block and kill Lightfoot. So if scum are blocking her then they targeted someone else with the nightkill. Someone who has protection innately or was protected by another power. And I can’t figure out what assumptions need to be reworked and how. But at this point, I’m ok with lynching either Red or SF. Two no-kill nights have undone some of the damage from the 3 firsrt mislynches and either of those two will yield information.

Septimus was easy. He overplayed and showed his hand. But I’d already made my case and people didn’t go for it. I had nothing left for that day but re-stating what he had done. And I didn’t want to risk a chance to lynch scum so I left Septimus and glommed onto the one I thought was going to a Slaughter, and I would be extra insurance no one could pull another Septimus. But then texcat flipped town. The next day started and I really wanted to lynch Septimus but it didn’t seem like the idea would gain any traction, so I held off while Red and SF butted heads. You floated the idea of lynching Septimus again, which was what I wanted and I doublevoted because, I really wanted him dead. And then he did. And I was happy.

*You don’t have to hear it if you don’t want. But it won’t make it any less true.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Just to make it very clear:

Inner Stickler is now claiming to be Lightfoot’s protection.

Real doctor, do not counter-claim this. I don’t feel like losing you tonight.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Inner_Stickler

I’ve been thinking. When the day started, and Red claimed he was blocked, I was pretty sure that Shadowfacts had done it and the scum had attempted to kill a protected lightfoot which was why there was no kill last night. But then Shadowfacts says he targeted you which means someone else blocked Skeezix. But I finally reached level three and was able to protect Lightfoot without blocking her last night.* So someone else has been blocking her or correctly guessed that the doc would be leveled up enough to not be paranoid last night. Who would block Lightfoot? The scum most likely. But then who blocked Red? Scum? They have two roleblockers? Or is Red lying? If that’s the case, I want him dead. Scum wouldn’t both block and kill Lightfoot. So if scum are blocking her then they targeted someone else with the nightkill. Someone who has protection innately or was protected by another power. And I can’t figure out what assumptions need to be reworked and how. But at this point, I’m ok with lynching either Red or SF. Two no-kill nights have undone some of the damage from the 3 firsrt mislynches and either of those two will yield information.

Septimus was easy. He overplayed and showed his hand. But I’d already made my case and people didn’t go for it. I had nothing left for that day but re-stating what he had done. And I didn’t want to risk a chance to lynch scum so I left Septimus and glommed onto the one I thought was going to a Slaughter, and I would be extra insurance no one could pull another Septimus. But then texcat flipped town. The next day started and I really wanted to lynch Septimus but it didn’t seem like the idea would gain any traction, so I held off while Red and SF butted heads. You floated the idea of lynching Septimus again, which was what I wanted and I doublevoted because, I really wanted him dead. And then he did. And I was happy.

*You don’t have to hear it if you don’t want. But it won’t make it any less true.

Inner Stickler, forgive me.

When the day started, and Red claimed he was blocked, I was pretty sure that Shadowfacts had done it and the scum had attempted to kill a protected lightfoot which was why there was no kill last night.

So you’re saying, my dear once-paranoid now-not doctor, that you have no idea if your friend Lightfoot was attacked or not last night.

Just to be clear, these are your words.

So if scum are blocking her then they targeted someone else with the nightkill.

Why are you considering both theories?

She was attacked or she was not attacked.

Which is it? You should know, you’re the one protecting her.

You don’t get ANY messages whatsoever indicating your results?

Post the results now.

But at this point, I’m ok with lynching either Red or SF. Two no-kill nights have undone some of the damage from the 3 firsrt mislynches and either of those two will yield information.

You know why Lightfoot cannot scan, you’ve been the one blocking her.
You also know if she’s ever been attacked or not, if so.
You’re claiming that Lightfoot could scan last night.
Which means that you knew that the scum roleblocker was blocking Lightfoot.
Which means that you know that Red Skeezix is lying, or ShadowFacts is lying.

Which means you know that Red Skeezix just posted that he was blocked by magic, and then getting conked in the head, but at least one of those stories is false, because the roleblocker was busy blocking Lightfoot. So he wasn’t blocked by the scum roleblocker.

And yet, he’s also saying, implicitly, that ShadowFacts didn’t do it either, even though he’s unaware that he’s saying that.

So, which is it? Shadow, or Red, which is lying?

And why don’t you know if Lightfoot has ever been attacked? Has she?

Where are your results?

[Suburban_Plankton]

Pizza, why would you assume a Doctor would know whether or not his protectee was attacked or not? In my experience, it doesn’t work that way.

[Inner_Stickler]

@Askthepizzaguy

Inner Stickler, forgive me.

So you’re saying, my dear once-paranoid now-not doctor, that you have no idea if your friend Lightfoot was attacked or not last night.

Just to be clear, these are your words.

Why are you considering both theories?

She was attacked or she was not attacked.

Which is it? You should know, you’re the one protecting her.

You don’t get ANY messages whatsoever indicating your results?

Nope, just a PM confirming my action has been received

Post the results now.

I have none, unless you want PMs saying things like “Received” and “OK”

You know why Lightfoot cannot scan, you’ve been the one blocking her.

For Nights 2 and 3, yes.

You also know if she’s ever been attacked or not, if so.

Nope. I have received no info on whether she has been targeted by anyone other than me.

You’re claiming that Lightfoot could scan last night.

As far as I am in control of the situation, she could.

Which means that you knew that the scum roleblocker was blocking Lightfoot.

Not until she posted that she was still blocked last night. And it could be a third party role with a blocking ability also. All I know is that I am no longer the source of her block.

Which means that you know that Red Skeezix is lying, or ShadowFacts is lying.

In what way?

Which means you know that Red Skeezix just posted that he was blocked by magic, and then getting conked in the head, but at least one of those stories is false, because the roleblocker was busy blocking Lightfoot. So he wasn’t blocked by the scum roleblocker.

And yet, he’s also saying, implicitly, that ShadowFacts didn’t do it either, even though he’s unaware that he’s saying that.

So, which is it? Shadow, or Red, which is lying?

I’m not getting why I should know who is lying.

And why don’t you know if Lightfoot has ever been attacked? Has she?

Again, I don’t know. It’s quite possible that the scum have been merrily avoiding Lightfoot and I’ve been wasting my time so far.

Where are your results?

I protected Ed night 1, and Lightfoot every subsequent night. Nights 1, 2, and 3 I was a paranoid doctor. Last night I was a regular doctor. You know as much as I do.

[LightFoot]

** ATPG ** You are working on the assumption that all docs are told if their protectee was targeted ( NOT always the case )
I had a ‘strongman role once’ and the mods refused to tell me if I HAD been targeted (I had no clue if I was still “bulletproof”). You have a strong voice in this game but PLEASE . to coin a phrase don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Just yet.

** Inner ** I know what level I am and how I got there can you share how you gained level 3?

[Inner_Stickler]

Protecting Ed and then you got me to level 2 for Day 3. I protected you again on Night 3 for another half a level and lynched Septimus to jump to level 3. That ran me up against the cap so I gained no experience for protecting you last night. This can all calculated based off my last post and the rules.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Role PM.

[Red_Skeezix]

Q&A:

Why didn’t I target ShadowFacts last night?

Pedescribe was/is the better target for my kill.

1. Absent players need to be removed from the game, especially when they’ve intimated that they aren’t coming back. Think about this: If the game ends up in a 3-1 going into night scenario with the the last lynch being scum. You’ve got X, Y, Z and pedescribe. That night there’s no kill. Who gets lynched? How does one weigh the merits of the cases against someone who has been absent for most of the game?

2. ShadowFacts has lots and lots of posts and votes and other data points that can be digested and ruminated and acted upon. Pedescribe, not so much. Plus a pedescribe lynch is going to produce jack shit for information, whether he is scum or town, since at this point the only case I can see that can be made is: You were here for a bit on day 1 and now not so much.

3. Pedescribe is the player least likely to be protected. This increases my chances of proving my power. If he’s town, the doc is not protecting him. If he’s scum, a scum doc is unlikely to protect him since he’s not drawing much attention.

@ATPG: I’m sending the PM after I post this. Will post answer when I get it.
In the future: It feels like Suburban is twisting the way votes have gone down, and what has been said when. I need to review his posts and put together a more accurate picture, rather than my hunch right now.