Nothing like plowing through Voyager to make DS9 look like a masterpiece!
Do not watch the salamander thing.
And above all, do not look at Neelix’ feet.
I made it near the end of S2 of Voyager before quitting. After that, I picked the episodes that were highly rated.
It is worth even the salamanders to hear that the last line of the first episode is the same last line of the last episode.
“Set a course for home.”
Thanks for starting this thread! Just started season 3. I watched a lot of TNG when it was airing fresh in the 90’s, but never picked up DS9. I love it! Will probably go back and re-watch TNG after this.
IIRC, the early episodes of Voyager weren’t that great. Once 7 of 9 joins the crew, it gets better. Doesn’t she join around season 3?
The way I do re-watches, I need to watch all of them good and bad.
Haven’t started yet though. I need to give it a rest for a while after DS9.
Some of Voyager is okay, but most of it is highly variable, and the first two seasons didn’t seem to know quite what they were doing. “Scorpion”, the two parter where the crew meets the Borg (the point at which seven of nine joins the crew), is easily the best two episodes of the entire show. “The year of hell” was another good two parter.
I think the quality went downhill when the actress started sleeping with a producer and it became Star Trek-Seven of Nine.
But it had it’s moments, “Break out the compression phaser rifles.”
Agreed. But I would be hard-pressed to name, say, two dozen good VGR episodes… or even a dozen good ENT episodes.
The Doctor on Voyager was such a great character that he made the show worth watching.
I saw about 4 episodes of Enterprise, and nothing at all made it worth watching.
I can announce that I have started my Voyager re-watch.
Not sure if I should just continue a discussions here or start a new thread as the re-watch now is for Voyager rather than DS9.
Any thoughts?
As for the first few episodes, I forgot how much I disliked Chakotay. His “spiritualism” is annoying. I also forgot how I was annoyed with Kes as well, but not as much as Chakotay.
In addition, I found the acting in the first few episodes a bit stilted, IIRC, it does get better. Probably the actors are just getting used to their roles.
I liked the episode “Eminations” where…dead bodies appear on asteroids. Only thing that annoyed me there was Chakotays insistence that what appeared to be a burial site only be investigated visually. Not even none invasive scanning. Really? I can understand not desecrating the bodies by performing autopsies and such, but what’s the problem with none invasive scanning? Seriously?
Apart from that, the rest of the episode was great.
Opinions on if I should start a new thread or just continue this one would be appreciated as I will likely be posting additional comments and questions if any.
Ah yes, Voyager. We will be moral or die trying (probably the latter). The number of times that show made me want to throw my TV at the wall…
I’ve shared this a few times, but this is a good point at which to post a piece of satire I wrote on Voyager. Hope y’all enjoy
Voyager “generic episode” breadbox
SHOT OF VOYAGER FLOATING SERENELY THROUGH SPACE. JANEWAY NARRATES
Janeway: Captain’s log Stardate 123456789, it’s been about three weeks since that last batshit thing that happened to Voyager and the crew, at the end of which we all learnt a valuable lesson about love, life and happiness. I’ve put the ship on adventure alert as it’s about time that something else new, exciting and resolvable in 45 minutes happens to us.
CUT TO JANEWAY SITTING IN THE CAPTAINS CHAIR ON THE BRIDGE LOOKING SLIGHTLY CONSTIPATED
Janeway (still narrating): I’ve ordered the ship into a star system that looks exactly like every one we’ve ever visited to take a closer look, despite the fact that we’re all terribly homesick and it’s only going to slow us down.
Harry Kim: Gee whiz Captain mam! I’m picking up a subspace signal, by golly gosh!
Janeway: On screen.
A PICTURE OF A HIDEOUS AND INTIMDATING ALIEN APPEARS. IT’S DRESSED IN BLACK AND IS WEARING A NECKLACE OF HUMAN SKULLS. BEHIND IT THE FLAG OF THE THIRD REICH HANGS FROM THE WALL.
Alien: You are entering Wibblewoowoo space. We are a race of generic evil aliens who hate everyone and everything for no particular reason, although I must admit that being part of a race with such a stupid name isn’t helping our self esteem much. Anyway, death to all outsiders!
Janeway: I’m Captain Kathy Janeway of the Federation Starship Voyager. We want very much to be your friends and I’d like to take this opportunity to invite you to the picnic we’ve got planned on Sunday. They’ll be home-made lemonade, banjo music and a country dance and everything!
JANEWAY SMILES AT THE VIEWSCREEN AND RAISES HER EYEBROWS SUGGESTIVELY
Alien: Enough! As soon as my ship gets in range I’m going to start shooting at you until your ship is a pile of melted scrap metal and you’re all floating through space dead.
JANEWAY SMILES AND NODS
Janeway: Okay, we’ll put you down as a maybe. Don’t forget if you do come it’s bring your own bottle. Ta taa!
JANEWAY WAVES TO THE SNARLING ALIEN AS THE IMAGE DISAPPEARS
Chakotay: Captain, I have a feeling that maybe that alien isn’t going to be bringing us any potato salad. Do you think maybe we should take defensive action?
Janeway: Chakotay, if I’ve learnt anything from my hundreds of hours of Starfleet captain training seminar lunches it’s to always trust my instincts, and I’ve got a good feeling about that very angry and slightly deranged alien.
THE SHIP SUDDENLY LURCHES AND THE SOUND OF AN EXPLOSION IS HEARD
Harry Kim: Holy smokes Captain mam sir! The Wibblewoowoo ship has come into range and is firing on us, dag nabbit!
JANEWAY FROWNS AS SHE CONSIDERS THE SITUATION
Janeway: Hmmmm, they’re clearly trying to send us a message, but what could it be?
THE SHIP LURCHES AGAIN
Tuvok: Captain, as the most permanently pissed off looking person you’ve ever met in your life, I must remind you that when ships fire at you it’s best to raise shields.
JANEWAY SHAKES HER HEAD
Janeway: No Tuvok, that would just show them that we condone violence and I can’t allow that.
THE SHOP LURCHES AGAIN AND ONE OF THE COMPUTER PANELS EXPLODES, KILLING THE NAMELESS EXTRA WORKING AT IT
Chakotay: Damn, we really need to sort out that faulty wiring problem.
Janeway: Okay I guess the Wibblewoowoos don’t want to come over for coffee after all. Tom, get us out of here.
TOM PARIS STARTS TO RANDOMLY TAP AT HIS COMPUTER CONSOLE
Tom Paris: Yes mam, preparing to engage warp engines as soon as I finish this sentence, yes sirree bob you can betcha that we’ll be out of this in a jiffy if my name isn’t Lieutenant-Commander Thomas Eugene Paris whose favourite colour is blue and whose interests include reading, tap dancing and water polo…
THE SHIP LURCHES AGAIN AND THERE IS ANOTHER SOUND OF AN EXPLOSION
Tom Paris: Warp drive really conveniently off-line captain!
THE COMM SYSTEM BEEPS
Belanna Torres: Captain, what the fuck is going on up there? I was just beating the shit out of one of my staff for eyeballing me and suddenly the ship started shaking all over the place. Fuck, I’m just such a plucky loose cannon with a nerve of iron and unresolved parental abandonment issues!
Janeway: We’ve run into some trouble Belanna, I need the cuddly bunny ray at full strength so we can retaliate.
Belanna: Oh holy fucking crap, that’s all I need. God I’m so mad I could just mutiny with all the ambiguously disloyal Maquis crew members and throw you out of an airlock.
Janeway: I knew I could count on you Belanna, bridge out.
JANEWAY SMILES AND TURNS TO CHAKOTAY
Janeway: Make sure she’s considered for promotion at the next crew evaluation.
Tuvok: Er, Captain? Can I do something to defend us now? I can’t keep frowning this hard all day.
Janeway: Knock yourself out elf boy.
SHOT OF VOYAGER FIRING CUDDLY RABBITS WITH OH-SO-CUTE EARS AT THE BIG, BLACK, MOTHER FUCKER DREADNOUGHT SHIP THAT IS ATTACKING THEM
Tuvok: Direct hit.
Harry Kim: Darn tootin! The cuddly bunnies are having no effect. The aliens attacking us still have no respect for democracy or the American way.
Janeway: Then I’ve got no option, I’m going to have to talk them over through the power of reason. Put the alien captain on screen Harry.
THE WIBBLEWOOWOO CAPTAIN COMES ON SCREEN AGAIN WHILST EATING A PLATE OF LIVE KITTENS
Alien: What do you want now? Aren’t you dead yet?
Janeway: Wibblewoowoo captain, don’t you see that all this hatred and violence is hurting you more than it is us?
Alien: What the hell are you talking about?
Janeway: Only a very sad person could attack innocent ships for no reason like this. What’s making you sad?
THE ALIEN CAPTAIN SUDDENLY BURSTS INTO TEARS
Alien: You’re right! Ever since my wife left me I’ve just felt the need to kill everyone. But now that you’ve pointed out how horrible that is I’m going to change my ways, go back to my people and get us all to volunteer with Amnesty International. Thank you so much captain – you’ve saved my entire species from ourselves.
JANEWAY SMILES AND GIVES THE ALIEN CAPTAIN A THUMBS UP
Janeway: Hey, it’s all in a day’s work for Starfleet. All the best!
THE ALIEN SHIP TURNS AROUND AND FLIES OFF PLAYING “LAND OF THE FREE” ON ITS TANOY SYSTEM
Janeway: Okay, now that we’ve dealt with the first plot point I think we should explore that unremarkable planet that we detected earlier.
Chakotay: Yes captain. Chakotay to all athletic, regularly appearing cast members, meet me in transporter room two.
CUT TO SHOT OF THE PLANET, THEN TO ANOTHER OF A LANDSCAPE THAT LOOKS LIKE SOMEWHERE WITHIN AN HOUR’S DRIVE OF LOS ANGELES. THE TRANSPORTER LIGHT FLASHES AND TUVOK, BELANNA, HARRY KIM, TOM PARIS AND CHAKOTAY APPEAR.
Harry Kim: Cor blimey! My tricorder tells me that there’s a highly advanced type of technology in an abandoned alien city within five minutes walk of here. Is that convenient or what?
Belanna Torres: Shut up Harry, before I hit you.
Chakotay: Settle down Belanna. I know that Harry’s intensely annoying but he’s just so young and eager, even though he looks about 30. Everyone follow me.
EVERYONE WALKS FOR A FEW MINUTES BEFORE THE SCENE CHANGES TO AN INDOOR SET
Tuvok: My arched eyebrows sense danger, “commander”.
Chakotay: You know, just because I left Starfleet to join a terrorist organisation that is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent Cardassians who were just following orders, it doesn’t mean that you have to say my title in quotation marks, Tuvok.
Tuvok: The hell it doesn’t.
Harry: Ay currumba! In my completely green enthusiasm I’ve worked out where the signal is coming from, it’s in that room over there.
THE CREW ENTER A ROOM WITH WHAT LOOKS LIKE A LARGE LAVA LAMP WITH L.E.D. LIGHTS FLASHING ON IT
Harry: My initial scans tell me that it’s an incredibly advanced alien propulsion system that will get us home in minutes, but not without some terrible consequence that will make it hard to justify using it.
Chakotay: (sigh) Yeah, because we haven’t seen one of those before. Okay Voyager, beam us and the tacky piece of tat up.
CUT TO JANEWAY’S OFFICE. JANEWAY AND CHAKOTAY ARE HAVING COFFEE
Janeway: Ah coffee! You know if it wasn’t for this and my amphetamine habit, I couldn’t carry on under the huge pressure of commanding this ship.
Chakotay: Er, right. Captain, this alien engine that we’ve found could get us home by tomorrow if we use it.
Janeway: But what’s the obvious and tension-inducing drawback?
Chakotay: It’ll destroy the planet we found it on, including all the registered local interest sites there. Did I mention that the planet has nearly a hundred endangered species living on it?
JANEWAY STANDS UP AND PACES THE ROOM
Janeway: I just can’t be responsible for that Chakotay, not without a long discussion with all the senior crew members that doesn’t resolve anything. Call a meeting in the moral dilemma room in five minutes.
Chakotay: You mean the briefing room?
Janeway: Whatever.
Chakotay: Oh Katherine, you’re just such a strong and decisive leader who’s still in touch with her feminine side. If I wasn’t so proud of my generic native South American heritage I’d kiss you!
Janeway: Chakotay, maybe no-one’s told you this but someone’s drawn on your face.
CUT TO A SHOT IN THE BRIEFING ROOM
Belanna: Raaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I can’t believe we’re discussing this. We need to do whatever it takes to get us home and fuck the consequences!
Janeway: I think you have a point Belanna.
Tuvok: Logic dictates that it would be wrong for us to use this device for our own gain if it harms anything else in the process.
Janeway: I think you have a point Tuvok.
Tom Paris: You mean this thing will make us go really fast? I mean, like, whoa man! That’s awesome! We just gotta use it!
Janeway: I think you have a point Tom.
Harry Kim: Gee whiz golly gosh darn tootin ay curumba eat my shorts supercalifragalisticexpialadocious. I’m so inexperienced that I’m just going to quote the Starfleet training manual like received wisdom.
Janeway: I think you have a point Harry.
Chakotay: Captain, it has to be your choice. In case you’ve forgotten, you’re in command.
THE COMM SYSTEM BEEPS
The Doctor: Captain, there’s a medical emergency in sick bay that you need to know about.
Janeway: What is it Doctor?
The Doctor: I haven’t been on screen once during this entire episode. Can’t someone contract an alien virus or get some kind of life-threatening illness or something so I can sneer at them and be thoroughly unsupportive?
Janeway: Of course Doctor. Belanna, do your stuff.
BELANNA PICKS UP A CHAIR AND BREAKS IT OVER TOM PARIS’S HEAD
Janeway: Janeway to the Doctor, we’ve got a medical emergency in the briefing room. Is this the point in the show when you’ve got the ability to be annoying and mobile at the same time?
The Doctor: No, stuck in the sick bay looking at internet porn right now I’m afraid, captain. You’ll have to bring the emergency to me.
Janeway: Harry, take Tom to sickbay and get his face fixed.
Harry: You mean his head doncha Cappy mam?
Janeway: I know what I mean.
SHOT OF SICKBAY. THE DOCTOR IS SMILING WHILST SINGING TO HIMSELF AND BENDING OVER TOM WITH A TRICORDER. KES IS STANDING BESIDE HIM SMILING BLANKLY.
The Doctor (singing): No no no noooooo, don’t funk with ma heart…
Kes: Doctor, can I hold the tricorder?
The Doctor: Not now Kes. Why don’t you have a flash of psychic insight instead? You’ve not had one for a while.
KES SUDDENLY CLOSES HER EYES AND LOOKS CUTE AND IN PAIN
Kes (gasping): Something horrible is approaching; we’re both in terrible danger…
NEELIX ENTERS
Neelix: Hi everyone, I heard that Tom Paris was hurt and I’ve worked out that this is the most inappropriate moment for me to come and gloat over him whilst he’s in pain, so here I am.
The Doctor: Not now Neelix, this isn’t the best time for you to do anything stupid.
Neelix: I resent that! I do more than cook badly and provide comic relief you know!
NEELIX ACCIDENTALLY FALLS OVER AND KNOCKS INTO A MAN CARRYING A CAKE WHICH GOES EVERYWHERE
Neelix: Look, I’m not just comic relief!
NEELIX TRIES TO STAND UP, SLIPS IN THE CAKE AND FALLS INTO AN OPEN CLOSET. HE EMERGES WITH A BUCKET ON HIS FOOT AND A BRA ON HIS HEAD.
Neelix: Oh come on! Let me do something serious for a change, like glower menacingly at Tom for trying to get sweet with my girl.
Kes: I’m special!
The Doctor: Yes you are dear.
NEELIX SITS DOWN GRUMPILY ONTO A MEDICAL BED AND LANDS ON A HYPOSPRAY FULL OF ANAESTHETIC, PROMPTLY PASSING OUT
The Doctor: Doctor to the bridge.
Janeway (through the comm system): Go ahead Doctor.
The Doctor: I’ve had enough screen time now, you can carry on with the central plot.
SHOT OF THE BRIDGE. HARRY LOOKS EXCITED, TUVOK LOOKS PISSED, BELANNA LOOKS PRE-MENSTRUAL, CHAKOTAY LOOKS FAT, JANEWAY LOOKS LIKE AUDREY HEPBURN WITH BAD MAKEUP IN A LEOTARD
Janeway: Okay, now that we’ve discussed the issue at hand I think we should all recap for those people who were stuck in the toilet longer than they intended during the last advert break.
Chakotay: Why don’t you update your log, Captain?
SHOT OF THE BRIDGE WITH EVERYONE LOOKING BUSY. CAMERA HOMES IN ON JANEWAY LOOKING THOUGHTFUL WHILST RESTING HER CHIN ON HER FIST
Janeway (narrating): Captain’s log supplemental. The issue of whether to use the inverse quantum gamma radiation tachyon stream flux converter field generator has divided the crew between those who want to get home, and those that just want to follow the Starfleet manual. As Captain I find that it’s times like these that I have to wonder what it’s really all about, and if at the end of the day it’s all just fate and none of us really have any say in our own destinies…
Chakotay: Um, Captain?
Janeway: … and does peanut butter and jelly really make the best combination in a sandwich? If the sum of the square of the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the square of the other two sides, do the two sides really equal that of the inverse of the square?
CHAKOTAY WAVES HIS HAND IN FRONT OF JANEWAYS FACE
Chakotay: Captain, hello? You’re rambling again, we need to resolve this ethical quandary and lean a lesson from the consequences.
Janeway: Sorry, you’re right Chakotay. Janeway to all crew members: as this is one hell of a gossipy ship you’ll know that we have at our disposal the means to get us home instantly…
JANEWAY PAUSES WHILST LOOKING AROUND THE ROOM
Janeway: But I’m not willing to sacrifice so many pristine natural habitats on the planet below to use it. I know that this will disappoint everyone but can I remind them all of the fable of the tortoise and the hare? It was the slow and steady tortoise that won the race. Besides, we’ve all got contracts with Paramount for another six years and I’ll be damned if I have to go on Spin City.
Chakotay: Captain I’m receiving reports of death-threats against you from all over the ship.
JANEWAY SIGHS
Janeway: Fine, use the fucking thing and see if I care.
Harry Kim: Wowza, the ship is ready to use the device Captain.
Belanna Torres (through the comm): This piece of shit is ready to go you pathetic excuse for a captain. Let’s get this fucking show on the road already.
Harry Kim: Device ready to initialise in five, four, three, two, one…
Chakotay: Nothing can possibly go wrong now.
A VOICE IS HEARD OVER THE COMM SYSTEM
Voice: We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. Prepare to be assimilated.
Chakotay: Oh.
Borg: Don’t drink and drive. We would like to remind you that this area is designated as non-smoking. Always use a condom. The value of your investment may go down or up and you may not get back what you put in.
Harry Kim: Twenty Borg cubes coming into range Captain, by Jove. What do we do?
Janeway: Don’t all look at me, this was your idea. I’m going to my ready room to get high.
JANEWAY FLOUNCES OUT OF THE BRIDGE LEAVING THE CREW TO PANIC
Tuvok: Well “commander”, looks like you’re in charge now.
Chakotay: Okay, take defensive action. Raise shields, fire weapons, engage warp drive, man the lifeboats, sell all our shares in Enron…
Harry Kim: We’re caught in a tractor beam and all our defensive systems have gone off simultaneously. We’re doomed! Oh if only I hadn’t wasted my youth at Starfleet Academy and gone and joined that sex cult when I had the chance instead!
Tuvok: Outer hull is failing, Borg drones will begin transporting onto the ship and turning us into a communist allegory at any moment.
Chakotay: We’re all going to die unless some amazing twist of fate happens right about… now.
Q MATERIALISES ON THE BRIDGE SMIRKING AND EYEING UP ALL THE MALE CREW MEMBERS
Q: Did someone call for a dues ex machina?
SHOT OF VOYAGER SAILING ALONG IN THE STARY NIGHT SKY. JANEWAY NARRATING
Janeway: Captain’s log supplemental. The Borg attack destroyed that nifty piece of alien technology that would have answered all of our prayers, but I guess it serves us right for our hubris. We’ve set a course for home and the Doctor has prescribed anti-depressants for everyone to take their minds of the fact that it’ll take 69 years and 354 days to get there now.
Chakotay: It’s a funny old game, this life thing, isn’t it Captain?
Janeway: Yes Chakotay, it is. It’s at times like this you realise that it’s true: all you need is love/you have to do the right thing/one for all and all for one/meaningless moral platitude.
Tuvok: Captain, you need to roll the end-scene dice to decide how the episode will finish.
JANEWAY TAKES OUT THE ENDING DICE AND ROLLS IT
Chakotay: It says poignant.
SHOT OF EVERYONE ON THE BRIDGE LOOKING TEARFUL AND LIKE THEY’VE LEARNT SOMETHING. SHOT OF VOYAGER VERY SLOWLY FLYING ALONG. A MOURNFUL PIECE OF MUSIC PLAYS. CREDITS COME UP.
Voyager was better than deep space 9.
(mods: this may sound like off-topic trolling, but look at the last few posts. Someone has to bring some balance here…)
At least it boldly explored. And if we’re going to talk about the gamut of episode types, voyager went much further as there were some really dark/intense episodes (e.g. oblivion, the void) right the way to the whimsical (e.g. tsunkatse).
I’m not going to attempt to justify the holodeck episodes, which were dreadful, but on balance I’d take Voyager over DS9.
I think Voyager and DS9 set out to do different things. DS9 was about life on the frontier, away from the protection of starfleet and having to find their way on the edge, which was made even more the case when the wormhole was discovered. The Dominion war brought a whole new side to this, making the frontier the first line of defence in the war.
Voyager was indeed about exploring, but it was also a rag tag bunch of intrepid adventurers trying to get home, something that is not in the least bit original (going all the way back to the Odyssey in the Iliad). Their struggle was kind of undermined by the fact that you knew they wouldn’t get home until the finale of the show, in the same way that the castaways were never going to escape from Gilligan’s Island.
Well Voyager was even more of a frontier in that case, moving through an unexplored region of space meeting new species mostly out of contact with the AQ.
FTR, I enjoyed the first series of DS9 the most, where they went through the wormhole several times and they introduced new species.
Then they didn’t go anywhere much or meet anyone new.
Well you could hardly call the war with the dominion original. A vast, and on the face of it, unstoppable invading army that will destroy our way of life unless we put away our differences and work together. How many times has that been done?
Likewise the war with the Dominion was obviously going to be resolved in the last episode of DS9.
For that matter, the writers could have specified that Odo himself was fairly small - perhaps the size of a human toddler - but he’s capable of incorporating non-Odo mass temporarily into his body. If he needs to be adult-human sized, he absorbs another couple dozen kilos of random material, breaks it down very rapidly, and distributes it appropriately throughout his body. It’s not really incorporated into his physiology, but serves as extra bones/supports/etc. And when Odo needs/wants to be smallish again, he can ditch that extra mass. Thus, you get a creature that can shift in size from, say, human toddler to horse-sized, without violating the laws of physics.
Actually, I had a different expectation. I thought they would get home, then find that the Maquis are still wanted criminals, and have to go on the run. There was occasional dialogue that seemed to be setting this plotline up.
Not quite, as the Dominion War didn’t even start until the end of the 5th season, I believe. Voyager’s mission was clear from the first episode.
DS9 kept me anticipating the next episode each time one ended. With Voyager, it just kept dragging on until I gave up. I assume I’ll eventually work my way through it, but I’ve still got about 5 seasons to go.
Maybe the default Odo shape was hollow, or had a very low density. That’s how he fit in the bucket. To assume a smaller size like a rat he just had to adopt a higher density but with the same amount of mass. Maybe it was a 150-lb rat.