Gee whiz, Scylla, wouldn’t it be easier to just admit you misread the Sister Soulja blurb?
Spoke:
Thank you for addressing my objection and getting back on topic. I appreciate it.
First off, you can’t tell me what I’d accept, and what I wouldn’t. You don’t know.
Secondly, I’ve been pretty clear about what I’d accept and what I wouldn’t
Thirdly, your analogy about barking dogs is a bad one. Dogs by nature bark. There are sound physiological proofs why they do so, and those can be shown. Are you maintaining that it is the nature of Republicans in to be racist or racist panderers? if so, please show the sound proofs.
That dogs bark and cats tend not to can be demonstrated without falling into the fallacies of accident or selection.
If you believe it’s analagous to dogs barking than you should be able to demonstrate it without the fallacies as well.
The fact is that instances of overt and percieved racism have been shown by both Democrats and Republicans. Several pages ago Bob Cos asked why the ones by Republicans should be considered indicative and the ones by Democrats as not.
I recall no reasonable answer.
Uh, yeah. And that shows “Sistah Soljah at the meeting promoted racial violence” precisely how?
Gee, I guess that part where I called Byrd and Hollings disgusting bigots just isn’t satisfying enough for you. Color me unsurprised.
By her mere presence. By the fact that they invited a known and public proponent of racial violence.
Now perhaps you can address my objections.
No. That was fine. It doesn’t address Bob’s question though.
How does the fact that you denounce them make them unrepresantative?
You also seem to denounce Republican instances so shouldn’t they be unrepresentative as well.
Oh well. I guess you showed me. Never mind, the Republicans are as pure as the driven snow.
Scylla wrote:
Yes, Bob Cos has demonstrated that sometimes humans bark, too.
Therefore, dogs don’t bark?
To address but one specific example, Bob Cos mentioned local Atlanta politician Billy McKinney complaining loudly that his daughter Cynthia McKinney lost her House seat because of “the Jews.” I happen to know something about that situation, so let me address it directly.
Firstly, I should note that McKinney’s remarks were made after his daughter was defeated. They may have been bigoted, but they weren’t pandering. The race was over. The remarks were those of a sore loser. (A good amount of money had been poured into the coffers of Cynthia’s Democratic opponent by Jewish individuals and organizations from outside the district, owing to Cynthia McKinney’s loudly contrarian stance on US support for Israel. Cynthia’s father was reacting to that set of circumstances.)
Secondly, I should note that Cynthia McKinney was defeated in a Democratic primary. Lesson: If the McKinneys were attempting to pander to bigots within the Democratic Party during the election, those attempts were repudiated by Democratic voters.
Thirdly, I should note that Billy McKinney also lost his election (state legislature) amid much bad publicity from local Democratic-leaning editors.
minty addressed the other examples raised by Bob Cos, I think. That handful of examples represented the best the Republican Party (via Rush Limbaugh) could come up with in what was doubtless a thorough and sifting nation-wide search for Democratic mis-steps on matters of race. (In other words, they were the equivalent of four humans barking).
Meanwhile, just searching my own state, I gave you four quick examples of Republicans pandering to bigots. (Plus the three Presidential examples.) This is the equivalent of looking out my back door and seeing seven dogs barking.
Now I can tell you that I don’t hear Georgia Democrats (with the exception of the ousted McKinneys) pandering on race. I can tell you that the two most prominent Georgia Democrats of recent vintage, Zell Miller and past governor Roy Barnes, have in fact taken courageous stands against bigots by fighting to remove the Confederate emblem from the state flag. (That fight cost Barnes his job, and had very nearly cost Zell his governorship some years earlier.) But I’m sure you’d still accuse me of selective sampling. So I’ll turn the question back to you: Please find counter-examples of current Georgia Democrats pandering to bigots.
I’ll wait.
Spoke:
Yes. He said they were bad.
I dunno, I really haven’t searched that much, as I don’t beleive such examples are necessarily representative for reasons explained. (He said for the twentieth time.)
If they’re not representative for Republicans why should they be representative for Democrats?
So you said. And that may have been what they were. But, for the 50th or 60th time individual examples are not meaningful they are subject to selection and accident.
Which is nice. Bush just talked about not tolerating bigotry. I guess that’s a Republican making a courageous stand.
Why? Individual examples don’t prove anything.
If we wanted to get somewhere, we’d choose a bigger sample.
Let’s do it right and solve the issue.
Let’s choose 5 states in the deep South.
Georgia
Louisiana
Florida
S. Carolina
Mississippi
Let’s look at the current Senators and Governors as well as their most recent political opponents in the most recent race, and see what examples we can drum up.
All we need to do is find the names and put them into google along with “bigot” and “racism,” and see what comes up, if a pattern emerges.
Something like that is what I was hoping for in the OP.
And I did that with respect to my state, Georgia. Findings: Republican pandering on race.
You want me to research the whole Deep South for you? Do it yourself, and tell us what you find.
Why the hell should I do it?
I’m not the one maintaining Republicans are bigots or are pandering to bigots at the party level.
I’m not making the accusation.
The burden of proof is on those accusing.
I simply offered to help out of good will, and because I’m curious to see what would come up if somebody actually used their brain and tried to go about answering the question in a rational method.
Which, to date, nobody has done, which is why I maintain the accusations are baseless.
These things must be done before the accusations are made.
Googling is an awful, awful way to conduct methodologically sound research, ya know. Even Lexis would be crap in this context, given the milquetoast nature of election coverage in state media outlets. You’d need detailed campaign itineraries from each candidate to see which fora were attended by only one of the two (if one spoke in front of the Daughters of the Confederacy, for example, and the other didn’t), and then you’d need the text of the speeches given, so you could look for evidence of racial pandering or racism or what have you. and then you’d probably need to talk to the speechwriters or the campaign managers to find out why their candidate said a certain thing at a certain time and place.
Google ain’t gonna cut it.
Gadarene:
Perhaps not, but if there’s some outright and obvious pandering, or racist comments you’d think it might hit the radar.
Or I would. I could be wrong.
Gee, just off the top of my head, here’s what I came up with
Georgia: Republican candidate for governor embraces Confederate flag, wins election.
Louisiana: David Duke wins the Republican primary for governor on a white rights platform.
Florida: Disproportionate disenfranchisement of black voters under beloved Secretary of State Katherine Harris.
S. Carolina: Confederate flag, state capitol, all the 2000 Republican presidential candidates declaring that they have no position on the primary symbol of racial hatred in America . . . have I mentioned this before?
Mississippi: Trent Lott.
And I ain’t playing your bullshit “most recent election” game. You don’t get to define away the stink by limiting the size of the cesspool.
You’d think. And I think sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn’t–either way, Google’s a really imperfect rendition of “the radar.”
Two questions, though:
-
Do you think that there exists pandering and racial comments that aren’t “outright and obvious”?
-
If so, do you think the non-outright and non-obvious kind a) matter just as much as the outright and obvious kind in answering the question of recent racism by Democrats compared to Republicans, b) matter less, or c) matter more?
Don’t forget Jesse Helms up in North Carolina, minty. He also had a habit of getting all flirty with the Council of Conservative Citizens.
Or, since you mention South Carolina, ol’ Strom Thurman himself.
And there’s Republican governor Guy Hunt of Alabama, Republican governor Kirk Fordice of Mississippi, both of whom have spoken at Council of Conservative Citizens meetings.
(Feel free to jump in with counter-examples of Southern Democrats pandering to bigots whenever you find one…)
(If you find one…)
Yes.
Just as important.
The problem of course is making a false accusation
Strom is retired. North Carolina is not on the list, and I think Helms is gone anyway.