Democratic bigotry in denouncing the "Southern Strategy"

Great Debates
261

Not to go out on a limb for Southern Republicans, but examples of Southern Democrats pandering to bigots:

Senator Robert Byrd (if West Virginia is considered South), for all the talk, has never really given up some of his racist past. He was at the forefront against the Civil Rights movement, and he doesn’t shy away from using the n-word, though when he did it on Fox News it was one of the few times in the present that he did it in public.

Senator Ernest Hollings (South Carolina) has repeatedly used racial slurs in his career. Hollings was the Governor when South Carolina put up the Confederate Flag and (infamously) in 1993, at the GATT convention he refered to the African delegation as “you’d find these potentates from down in Africa, you know, rather than eating each other, they’d just come up and get a good square meal in Geneva.”

Representative Dick Gephardt (Missouri) has spoken in front of the Metro South Citizens Council, a white supremicist organization and openly asked them for support in his candidacy in the past.

Lee Brown (Mayor of Houston) ran a campaign to supress the Hispanic vote in 2001 when he ran against Hispanic Republican Orlando Sanchez. A fellow Democrat, city councilmen retracted the endorsement after Brown’s campaign got up and running for the anti-Hispanic undertones.

Former Representative Cynthia McKinney (Georgia), who just lost her seat, has been a very anti-Jewish voice down in Georgia. After she lost her primary bid for reelection in 2002, her father blamed the whole thing on the Jews.

That’s a few of them. But rascists, whether Democrat or Republican is despicable. I think it is more of a Deep South problem rather than any one party.

262

Great. So now that we’ve established that 1) non-outright and non-obvious instances are at least as important as those that are outright and obvious (you say “as important as,” I say “more important than,” and we can meet in the middle) and 2) non-outright and non-obvious instances will not be found in the cursory Google search that you propose (nor will some instances of outright and obvious conduct, in my opinion–would Google have come up with Trent Lott’s 1980 remarks a month ago? if Mitch McConnell says something inflammatory today, will it be on Google tomorrow?), then what good, pray tell, will a Google search do in determining whether these accusations (which encompass, I should point out, the historical conduct you’d like to leave out of the discussion) are false or not?

Apologies for the Brobdignagian sentence.

263

Who are both ex governors.
Now Spoke I know you want to aid in and start making accusations, but perhaps you should stick to the rules.

What I intend to do is identify all the names that meet the sample I’ve identified. Then I’m gonna hunt for racist dirt on all of them Dems and Republicans.

I’m gonna list the three worst things I can find about them in terms of racism, bigotry or pandering.

Then I’ll compare the list.

But, you need to stick to current Senators and Governors of the States I identified, and the candidates they faced in the most recent election.

You can’t choose people outside the list or you’re engaging in selection.

This is a small sample so it shouldn’t be too hard.

264

Most of the rest of your post has already been discussed, but can I have a cite for the other times in the present that Byrd did this in public, and all the implied times in the present that he’s done it in private?

265

Gadarene;

You’r point is well taken. I just figure it’s best to start with the obvious and outright first and see what happens.

That’s how I usually try to solve problems. I try the obvious solution first.

266

Former Congressional aides that have worked with him says he doesn’t shy away from the word. Sorry, if that is anecdotal evidence, but it shows me he’s still harbors racist feelings.

267

Well duh. We’ve conceded Byrd is a bigot, and Hollings too. What else are you gonna pull out of that blog screed I criticized Bob Cos earlier for not revealing as his source?

268

No, she has been an anti-Israel voice, which is not the same thing. She may be bigoted, but you’ll need a cite for that assertion.

269

Incidentally, Lee Brown’s alleged racial crime was that he described his conservative, Cuban-American opponent as “anti-Hispanic” for opposing affirmative action. That’s stupid and ham-fisted, but hardly translates into “[running] a campaign to supress the Hispanic vote,” unless you mean “a campaign to suppress his opponent’s Hispanic vote and capture it for himself.”

270

Harder than you’re admitting. The code language is often subtle. There’s no way that I can think of to search for it on the internet. Only if they’ve done something really obvious (like kissing the CCC’s ass) are we going to be able to find internet references.

Tell you what, though. Let’s revive this thread next election cycle, and chronicle the pandering as it occurs. Then we’ll see if Republicans really are “reformed.”

271

And I must say, the lengths those wacky NewsMax guys will go to to fing examples of supposed Democratic bigotry really serves to demonstrate just how rare those examples are. Good lord, can you imagine how apoplectic Scylla would be if we pulled out an M&M representing a Republican mayoral candidate?

272

Gee, more proof than one just shouldn’t go to work. Missed all kinds of stuff. But this is definitely going into the Scylla’s Greatest Hits. He even pulled my all time favorite, posting something indefensible, getting busted and claiming it was an example of the poor rhetorical devices he disdains. Vintage stuff, can’t remember when he first pulled this one. Might have been the Great Chad Debacle.

But my all time favorite is claiming to have utterly destroyed an argument, and then refusing address the argument, because, after all, it can’t be an argument if he already demonstrated its utter falsity.

Case in point: Bob Jones U. Of course, as you already knew, this wasn’t about proving that GeeDubya is a racist homophobe. The crux is simply by lending the dignity of the office to which he aspires, and purports to be worthy of, he was manifesting the “Southern strategy” of deniable innuendo. He is suggesting a respect for doctrines he wouldn’t be caught dead defending, and amost certainly does not believe.

When a political candidates speaks at a synogogue, it doesn’t mean he’s a Jew. It doesn’t necessarily imply any political tilt toward Israel. But it does clearly indicate a respect for such institution.

Now, if that were my argument, your rebuttal could only be described as concise, complete, and entirely adequate. But it isn’t. Not even close.

I can speak to Joe Racist/Phobe. “Your standing on my foot!” say. Of course, that will not affect my rac/phobe factor even one iota. However, if I go to Racist/Phobe University, and speak there on presumably dignified occasion, and lend them the same sort of respect due to a Harvard, an Oxford, or a Baylor then that is a clear token of my regard.

The same appies to Bush, only more so, much more so. The is no chance, none whatsoever, that the politicial nuances of that occasion were not wieghed with the utterest seriousness. The power junky in hot pursuit does not kid around. The value of being seen in connection with BJU was determined to be politically beneficial. If not for reason of the “Southern strategy”, then why?

Hence, we can establish that as late as two years ago the aforesaid strategy was extant. If the Republican party has, in fact, decided to abandon that policy, and I am convinced that they have, then it is at least as recent as that. For all practical purposes, the same people are still making the important decisions.

Therefore it follows that the decision to drop the strategy was made by the same people who made the decision for Bush to speak at BJU. Persons who had no deeply troubling qualms about what would certainly be construed as lending dignity to an institution that deserves none. Persons who brushed aside any such moral qualms and made the politically advantageous choice.

Necessarily, we must assume that this decision to drop the strategy was also made on the basis of political stratagem. Unless, we can posit some profound enlightenment and moral awakening by these same men in the intervening two years. I think we can safely overlook that conjecture.

Proven examples of Pubbies manipulating racial issues to entirely cynical political advantage. One.

273

The fact she allowed her father to have a press conference in the primaries blaming Cynthia’s problems on Jews, and she didn’t come out and refute that (you MUST remember that) shows me something.

–

And yes, many Southern Republicans still believe in a ‘Southern Strategy’. Whether the national party (RNC) believes that, I’m more skepital on. I don’t think Marc Raciccot (current head of the RNC) really cares too much about having a solid Republican South. But evidently some people do, and they don’t come off pretty nicely when their campaigns are said and done.

Interestingly this only seems to really get nasty in few Southern states. I don’t recall Warner from Virginia falling into that hole, over Frist in Tennessee. It mainly seems to strech from Mississippi to South Carolina, aka, the Deep South.

274

I forgot. Alabama is deep south too. We’ll thow that in. It also makes the mix pretty even between Dem and Rep.

I’ll list the names and do some searching with some keywords and see what I come up. I’m not going to bother looking for the opposing candidates, but if there name comes up in fashion that’s relevant I’ll mention it.

According to the Gov’s websites, here’s the names of the current Senators and Govs

Georgia

Senate - Max Cleland, Zell Miller
Gov - Roy Barnes

Louisiana

Senate - John Breaux, Mary Landrieu
Gov- Mike Foster, Jr.

Florida

Senate - Bob Graham, Bill Nelson
Gov - Jeb Bush

S. Carolina

Senate - Ernest Hollings, Strom Thurmond
Gov - Jim Hodges

Mississippi

Senate - Thad Cochran, Trent Lott (ouch)
Gov - Ronnie Musgrove

Alabama

Senate - Jeff Sessions, Richard Shelby
Gov - Don Seigelman

275

Georgia:

  1. Max Cleland, Democrat, seems strong against hate crimes, spoke out against bigotry, but opposed the “no child left behind” policy, accused by Chambliss of being unpatriotic during campaign but volunteered for Vietnam and got wounded badly, so seems baseless.

My opinion: Squeaky clean, appears at quick glance to be an exceptional man

  1. Zell Miller, Democrat, apparently opposed a voting drive for African Americans, against gun control, tried to remove Confederate flag. Accused of Christian bigotry by right wing hate site.

My opinion: Looks ok to me,
3. Roy Barnes, Democrat - Fought to change the flag this term as Governor, but basically beat out Zell (the previous Governor and Senator named above,) most likely because of the flag issue. Barnes had claimed he “had better things to do,” during the election but once elected fought for change. May have lost the election to Sonny Perdue just recently strictly because of the flag. If my cites are correct (and I’m glancing quickly) we won by being silent on the flag issue, and lost by acting on it

My opinion: This flag appears to be the third rail of Georgia politics, doesn’t it?

  1. Sonny Perdue, Republican - Appears to have won and broken the Democrats 130 year lock on the Governorship because of the flag. Walked a fine line to do it, but it appears to be the same line that Barnes walked to beat Zell previously! Promised to have a State referendum on the issue of the flag and that promise appears to have had a big positive impact with Joe Redneck, so he went al little further than Barnes did last go around. The flag was such an issue that it seems to have overshadowed everything else, but no other accusations of bigotry were readily found.

My opinion: I’m detecting a pattern here. Get elected by not making a big issue of the flag. Get in office, do the right thing concerning flag and get your ass kicked at the next election. We’ll see what Perdue does regarding this thing.
Georgia Summary:

Goddamn Georgia’s fucked up. No wonder Spoke is so nutty! :wink: I added Perdue because the flag was such an issue here. It seems to be the issue. Barnes appears to have pandered a little in his first election, as did Perdue just recently. Barnes has redeemed himself, Perdue as of yet has not. Screw the Southern strategy, there appears to be a pretty clear Georgia Strategy.
(Note: I added Perdue, because of the flag issue. Race and bigotry did not appear to be much of an issue with Chambliss so I didn’t go into detail. I’ve done my best to be fair and give both sides with an air of impartiality. You can decide how well I succeeded.

Somebody want to do the next state? I’d strongly suggest that we don’t debate Georgia beyond factual corrections until the other states are done.

276

And I already told you I confirmed every fact that I relayed with a separate source, I stated each fact without any hyperbole, and you already conceded that none of the facts were in question as far as you were concerned. I also told you my opinion of those facts, and the reason I provided them.

I also couldn’t help noticing that your criticism of my post apparently made actually answering the questions I posed to you in follow-up slip your mind.

277

Hey, wait a minute. Is there an insult in there? Somebody let me know.

278

Scylla you’re proposed search for overt racist statements throughout the south begs two questions:

First, the premise of the “Southern strategy” does not depend on overt racist statements, indeed, the deniability of racism is an integral factor.

Secondly, that strategy appealed to racists all over the country. By tradition and culture, this is presumed to be more dominant in the South, but no one suggests it is exclusive to it. As I noted before, you can find any number of YeeHaw flags outside of the South, they’re not about a devotion to Gone With The Wind.

279

I read your questions, Bob, and determined that I had already answered most of them, expressly or implicitly, in my initial response to your blog-sourced data. As you may recall, I gave you three points out of seven attempts, and disallowed the four misses because they didn’t meet your own stated criteria: [ul][]examples of anti-black racism (Clinton and Cuomo failed on this count, since the evidence didn’t remotely demonstrate racist motive)[]high-profile Democrats (Bill McKinney? Please)within the last 20 years (Gephardt failed here because it was 1976, even apart from the fact that the alleged evidence sucked ass)[/ul]That about sum it up?

280

Louisiana

  1. John Breaux, Democrat Pisses off some Southern Heritage flag waver types, accused of Religious Chauvinism against Christians, thought of highly by the Southern States Action Bulleting (fighting racial prejudice in the South.)

My opinion - Looks squeaky clean

  1. mary Landrieu, Democrat, against Muslim bigotry, has a “vision of a democratic, diverse and just society, free of racism and bigotry.” daughter of a millionaire, “voted with Bush 85% of the time,” called a “Republican lite,” and a “moderate Democrat” beat Republican Suzanne Terrel in a close vote where race and bigotry did not appear to be an issue (or at least no major accusations showed up on google)

My opinion - yawn.

  1. Mike Foster, Republican - Accused of trying to get voter lists from David Duke’s association and reportedly refused to denounce Duke, saying “he was sick of all that,” by lefty site Supports ERA, Signed anti-hate crimes law, talking about how bad bigotry and hate and prejudice were, spoke at a conference against Racial bigotry at Tulane, “supports respect”

My opinion - no substantiation on the Duke thing, strong record against bigotry, looks ok.