Democrats Running For 2018 and 2020 Just Stop and Fucking Govern

[SteveG1]

@BlankSlate

I haven’t read this whole thread, but tell me if I’ve got the gist of it:

Republicans keep shitting themselves, but somehow it’s the Democrats fault for not changing their diapers fast enough? Something like that?

Yes, that’s it.

[Chimera]

@septimus

I don’t keep a scorecard but my impression is that Inbred is a Democrat who happens to have centrist views on some issues. I know that’s frowned on by many SDMB progressives, who think that if you don’t drink all the left-wing Kool-Aid, you might as well be a Trumpist.

Is that your impression from this thread or from a longer term of reading his posts? Because my impression has been more on the Republican side. I admit that I could be wrong.

But thanks for throwing out the kool-aid reference. :rolleyes:

[Inbred_Mm_domesticus]

@The_Other_Waldo_Pepper

You’re still not answering my question.

You say it wouldn’t be memorable. You say nobody would give a shit. But, near as I can tell, it’s what you think they should’ve done, for a week or two or whatever; and what I’m asking is: what do you think would’ve happened if they’d done that? What do you think the Republicans would’ve done, in response to the shutdown you think wouldn’t have been memorable and you think nobody would’ve given a shit about?

What do you think the outcome would’ve been for the Dreamers?

I don’t know what do you think?

[SteveG1]

@septimus

I understand what you wrote, and also the implication (which is what confused OP) that you thought that OP would …
So … is Inbred Mm domesticus a rational thinker or, as Chimera suggests, just another GOP-licking cretin? I don’t keep a scorecard but my impression is that Inbred is a Democrat who happens to have centrist views on some issues. I know that’s frowned on by many SDMB progressives, who think that if you don’t drink all the left-wing Kool-Aid, you might as well be a Trumpist.

Does this help?

I vote for cretin and troll. I’m just not sure what kind of trolling it is…

There are so many types…

The Rabid Flamer. …
The Priggish Grammar Troll. …
The Crybaby. …
The Never-Give-Up, Never-Surrender Troll. …
The Retroactive Stalker. …
The Lame Teenager. …
The Self-Feeding Troll. …
The Bored Hater. …
The Concern Troll. …
The White Knght. …

etc.

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@Inbred_Mm_domesticus

I don’t know what do you think?

As I understand it, what actually happened is that the Democrats quickly ended the shutdown upon concluding that the GOP wasn’t about to budge — at which point things went back to business as usual, with parks and museums being open and checks getting sent out to various American citizens and so on and so forth.

I think they were right: that, if they’d kept it going longer instead of figuring the GOP wouldn’t budge, they would’ve seen that the GOP wouldn’t have budged. At that point, the Democrats would’ve presumably ended that longer shutdown, at which point things would’ve presumably gone back to business as usual — just, you know, later that month, or maybe the next month, or whenever.

And if I’m right about them being right, then actually doing that — well, wouldn’t have actually gotten the Dreamers anything; it would’ve just given the GOP more days, rather than fewer, to stand in front of the cameras and say, gosh, we sure would love to get back to helping American citizens, but the Democrats sure want to keep the shutdown going a bit longer; they’ll still get nothing at the end of it, of course, but I guess they really want to inconvenience some soldiers and sailors first.

[Bryan_Ekers]

I’m where Waldo is on this: the Democrats should only flirt with a shutdown when the American public will recognize it as a Republican failure. Right now, there’s too much misguided belief that Democrats will be the ones at fault, in part because of a President who will say it’s the fault of Democrats (no matter what) and his followers who will believe and parrot him (no matter what).

So, ride this out, campaign as the party of grown-ups and hope that sells better in 2018 than it did in 2016.

[SteveG1]

@Bryan_Ekers

I’m where Waldo is on this: the Democrats should only flirt with a shutdown when the American public will recognize it as a Republican failure. Right now, there’s too much misguided belief that Democrats will be the ones at fault, in part because of a President who will say it’s the fault of Democrats (no matter what) and his followers who will believe and parrot him (no matter what).

So, ride this out, campaign as the party of grown-ups and hope that sells better in 2018 than it did in 2016.

It had already been spun up by Donald Dump as “the Democrats fault” and the retarded assholes believed it anyway.

[Ludovic]

@SteveG1

I vote for cretin and troll. I’m just not sure what kind of trolling it is…

There are so many types…

The Rabid Flamer. …
The Priggish Grammar Troll. …
The Crybaby. …
The Never-Give-Up, Never-Surrender Troll. …
The Retroactive Stalker. …
The Lame Teenager. …
The Self-Feeding Troll. …
The Bored Hater. …
The Concern Troll. …
The White Knght. …

etc.

The longer this thread is going on the more I think immd is a troll but I can’t think of which category above that it* fits into. The type I’m thinking of has people making assumptions about them but rather than clarifying the situation at all, responds with “you’re a stupid poopyhead for thinking that!”

*Using “it” because people have done this over assumed genders as well.

[Inbred_Mm_domesticus]

@The_Other_Waldo_Pepper

As I understand it, what actually happened is that the Democrats quickly ended the shutdown upon concluding that the GOP wasn’t about to budge — at which point things went back to business as usual, with parks and museums being open and checks getting sent out to various American citizens and so on and so forth.

I think they were right: that, if they’d kept it going longer instead of figuring the GOP wouldn’t budge, they would’ve seen that the GOP wouldn’t have budged. At that point, the Democrats would’ve presumably ended that longer shutdown, at which point things would’ve presumably gone back to business as usual — just, you know, later that month, or maybe the next month, or whenever.

And if I’m right about them being right, then actually doing that — well, wouldn’t have actually gotten the Dreamers anything; it would’ve just given the GOP more days, rather than fewer, to stand in front of the cameras and say, gosh, we sure would love to get back to helping American citizens, but the Democrats sure want to keep the shutdown going a bit longer; they’ll still get nothing at the end of it, of course, but I guess they really want to inconvenience some soldiers and sailors first.

I think, given the tone of my OP and the frustration I’ve demonstrated, you might be able to guess I do not see a longer shutdown as playing out the way you do. Further, without a single word written by me, you could guess I think poorly of the Democratic leadership. I don’t really have a great deal of respect for their analysis of shutdown outcomes. They blew the only bargaining chip they ever had. That’s my view. I am unimpressed with my party. They’re arrogant, they leave too much on the table during elections, and they’re not sufficiently aggressive in governing.

I’m glad I had the opportunty to point out the obvious to you.

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@Inbred_Mm_domesticus

I think, given the tone of my OP and the frustration I’ve demonstrated, you might be able to guess I do not see a longer shutdown as playing out the way you do.

Well, yes. But I don’t know how, exactly, you think it would’ve played out instead; you obviously have something in mind, but you for some reason refuse to mention just what you think it would’ve been. Which, since you started the thread, is — odd?

[septimus]

As I say, I don’t keep scorecards on the Dopers. But I did do a Search when I saw the following:

@Chimera

Is that your impression from this thread or from a longer term of reading his posts? Because my impression has been more on the Republican side. I admit that I could be wrong.

But thanks for throwing out the kool-aid reference. :rolleyes:

I looked for Inbred posts containing ‘Clinton’ and read the three at the bottom of the first page of search results. Here they are:

ETA: Some others
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19192472&highlight=Clinton#post19192472

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19116580&highlight=Clinton#post19116580

@Inbred_Mm_domesticus

So by your logic regarding Obama, it must have been Clinton’s leadership that got Gingrich to back that budget. Now I get why you think Obama is not leading because you remember how good it was when Clinton was leading.

@Inbred_Mm_domesticus

The reason why you hear “Worst President ever!” has nothing to do with an objective analysis of his failures and accomplishments. Anybody posting here is doing so based on their frame of reference. In memory, the Presidents I have to compare this guy to are Reagan, GHW Bush, and Clinton. Most of us are taught a decent level of history on Washington and Lincoln, and due to exposure to our elders we receive decent exposure to FD Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter and Nixon (I rarely hear much said about Ford or Eisenhower).

Now how could GW Bush look like anything but the bottom-of-the-barrell compared to these other Presidents? I do want to thank GW Bush for increasing my esteem for Reagan by roughly 1000-fold.

Enjoy today’s dose of the obvious.

[the 3rd is long and mostly irrelevant but, for control, I quote its entirety.]

@Inbred_Mm_domesticus

I can speak from experience and with a strong interest in Turkey that the level of animosity Turks have felt toward the US has little to do with our support for Israel.

Although I cannot comment on the rest of the Middle East, Turkish anger toward us really did begin to rise with our invasion of Iraq in 2003. Let me take you through an anecdotal and off topic series of visits to Turkey: I first visited Turkey in 2001. While there, I met a woman who absolutely loved Clinton (she was very jealous of Monica, j/k) and most Turks I met remembered him kissing a baby or something after the earthquake in 1999. Our popularity polls were quite high at the time and people were very sorry for the USA during 9/11. My next visit was in 2002 and by this time talk of invading Iraq was in full force. My future father-in-law told me a joke about Osama bin Laden beating George Bush. He thought it was funny and I took it as being a bit hostile. My most eye-opening visit was in 2007. I had visited a small pin factory where a Turk and Kurd happened to be working. The Kurd loved America and kept telling me how wise he thought George Washington was. The Turk called all Americans murderers for what we were doing in Iraq.

What might explain this change in attitude? Not Israel. There are several other reasons for their anger during this time period. Here are a few of the grievances I read about in Turkish news or heard from Turkish friends in the time frame from 2002-2009: America treated the Turks like servants who would do whatever we wanted with respect to invading Iraq, we capture 5 Turkish soldiers in Iraq and blindfold them (later becomes the subject of a widely popular movie), freed up the PKK in Northern Iraq to continually attack across the border, supplied American rifles to the PKK, increased rhetoric on Armenian genocide bills, and have generally showed little concern for Turkish interests in the region.

Anger toward us is based entirely on our policies, or their perception of our policies, toward them. This is probably true of any group in the region.

Where’s the “trolling”? Where’s the Republicanism?

At this point I’d like to see the evidence that Inbred is a Republican troll. I’m curious whether the identification of his “failings” will support my charge about Kool-Aid.

[JohnT]

I noted his posting history, free for all of us to review, has 0 mentions of DACA/govt shut down since 2016 (when I stopped looking) and noted his virulent concern here was… atypical… of the concern he(?) has shown on these issues before.

Didn’t add the adjective, “Republican”, myself, nor argued for it. But I established the 2nd part, I believe.

[septimus]

I’ve also mentioned DACA and the shutdown seldom if at all. That doesn’t mean I don’t care about them.

I don’t know what tactics Democratic Senators should adopt; I’m glad we have intelligent informed Senators making those decisions.

[Inbred_Mm_domesticus]

@The_Other_Waldo_Pepper

Well, yes. But I don’t know how, exactly, you think it would’ve played out instead; you obviously have something in mind, but you for some reason refuse to mention just what you think it would’ve been. Which, since you started the thread, is — odd?

I don’t know the outcome because I don’t choose to live in an alternative universe. What I do know is the Democrats didn’t fight at all.

Now, all we have to do is hope the Dems get some or all of Congress in 2018!!! Then what? Oh yeah, jack shit. Maybe 2020!!! Nope. The Democratic leadership has shown it’ll roll over with a little pressure. 2018 is going to be a lot worse than 2017.

For the rest of you analyzing my posting history, find something better to spend your time on. I need to flip a coin to decide whether it’s cute or pathetic. I guess it can be both.

[iiandyiiii]

@Inbred_Mm_domesticus

I don’t know the outcome because I don’t choose to live in an alternative universe.

Neither do we. Some of us think the chances of helping Dreamers would have worsened had the Democrats “fought harder” (i.e. with a prolonged shutdown). It’s reasonable to disagree on the best strategy both to help Dreamers and to win elections.

[Inbred_Mm_domesticus]

@iiandyiiii

Neither do we. Some of us think the chances of helping Dreamers would have worsened had the Democrats “fought harder” (i.e. with a prolonged shutdown). It’s reasonable to disagree on the best strategy both to help Dreamers and to win elections.

Which election victory will definitely remove the threat of deportation from the Dreamers?

How would a 2-week government shutdown affect this election victory?

[iiandyiiii]

@Inbred_Mm_domesticus

Which election victory will definitely remove the threat of deportation from the Dreamers?

No election will “definitely” do anything. With a Democratic Congress, this is more likely, since they can force a vote that would be likely to end up with a very large bipartisan majority.

How would a 2-week government shutdown affect this election victory?

I don’t know, but it could do some harm to its chances, just as any negative event in which the electorate blames one side more than the other.

[Inbred_Mm_domesticus]

Yeah, that wasn’t very compelling. They should’ve fought.

I think after this many posts, we can see the pitting identified a problem, suitably insulted the weakness and selfishness of the Democratic party leadership, suitably insulted the posters who dared disagree and suitably insulted the most stupid posters. All in all, a masterful pit thread.

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@Inbred_Mm_domesticus

Yeah, that wasn’t very compelling. They should’ve fought.

Why?

You don’t seem willing to say it would’ve gotten the Dreamers a better result then. You don’t seem willing to say it would’ve gotten the Democrats a better result in upcoming elections, either; so: why fight? What does it get them?

I think after this many posts, we can see the pitting identified a problem, suitably insulted the weakness and selfishness of the Democratic party leadership,

Look, if you want to insult the party leadership for stupidity — by saying they got it wrong, and could’ve won something — I’d disagree, but I’d follow you. But calling ‘em out for “selfishness”? If they couldn’t accomplish anything for the Dreamers by shutting down the government, then all that’s left is, for lack of a better word, “selfishness”: either (a) get nothing now and help the odds of being a winner later, or (b) get nothing now and worsen the odds of being a winner later.

Right?

[iiandyiiii]

@Inbred_Mm_domesticus

Yeah, that wasn’t very compelling. They should’ve fought.

I think after this many posts, we can see the pitting identified a problem, suitably insulted the weakness and selfishness of the Democratic party leadership, suitably insulted the posters who dared disagree and suitably insulted the most stupid posters. All in all, a masterful pit thread.

Or just someone expressing a vague and unsupported opinion and insulting those who disagree.