Dems - Defend your Senators holding the budget bill hostage

I considered issuing a warning for this given my previous note in post #166, but I am open to the possibility it wasn’t crystal clear. McVeigh isn’t germane to this thread. Introducing it in this fashion is akin to harassment. Don’t do this any further.

[/moderating]

Blessed be our New Founding Fathers and America, a nation reborn. May God be with you all.

Twitter != “the public”, or at least not all of the public.

I guess the Russian bots haven’t kicked in yet. Or maybe Twitter is finally blocking them.

It’s generally a pretty solid indicator of public opinion.

How far ahead of the US is 8 AM in Moscow?

Does anyone know the breakdown of the vote? How many Dems and how many Pubs voted against cloture?

Back to the subject of the OP. Can you defend these Senators effectively causing a shutdown? Remember how horrible previous shutdowns were when a minority of Pubs were “obstructionists” to passing a bill to prevent shutdowns. Does anyone want to take (and explain) the position where this shutdown is OK but the shutdowns over the deficit cap were not?

44 Dems and 5 Reps voted against cloture.

Democrats who voted yes; Jones, Donnelly, Heitkamp, Manchin
Republicans who voted no; Flake, McConnell (!), Paul, Graham, Lee

King and Sanders voted no and McCain did not vote.

The 2013 shutdown was led by the Republicans in the House. Both 2013 and 2018 are led by Congressional Republicans attempting to deny healthcare to poor people.

The two sides of that slash aren’t at all equivalent in my mind. The consequences of a (probably short-term) government shutdown aren’t likely to be as severe as if the U.S. were to default on its debts.

Probably Kiev; plausible deniability and all that.

See #176; it wasn’t a real No by McConnell.

And yet, it says something that the same senator who literally tweeted a ransom note to the Democrats earlier today voted with them.

Sad!

All that vote says is that McConnell is a politician. A ‘no’ vote from a Republican in leadership would be expected under the circumstances. Trying to make anything more of it than his vote being a calculated political move is mis-reading the situation.

It’s not the incongruity between a shutdown and MAGA that befuddles me, it’s the substantial quorum of US voters who’d consider that a shutdown represents an improvement in governance. [shrug]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. Party over country.

Is it really? You *could *try to show how they’re unfair, instead of simply complaining that they make you look bad. That looks more like confirmation than denial, yanno.

Views on the importance of shutdowns have certainly changed since the ancient mists of 2013, haven’t they? Then, it was more important to the Republicans that access to health care for the working poor be repealed than that the government be allowed to operate for another 16 days. *Something *must have changed to make suspending deportations of longtime productive and family-based US residents *less *important than a shutdown. I wonder what that could have been, hmm …

Actually, never mind. Wrong forum.

Is there some reason why the Majority can’t invoke the “nuclear option” or whatever it was called in order to pass the CR or the budget?

Pretty sure they could get rid of the filibuster (or my preference, mandate actual talking filibusters), but they have elected not to.