Depression and children

[Krisfer_the_Cat]

Okay… I hate airing my laundry in public but I am frantic. How can you tell if a child is depressed?

My Bear is crying a lot. He tells me after I discipline him that he wishes he were dead. He cries that he’s a loser but he can’t tell me why he thinks he is. He got sent to Time Out in school today and his teacher says he cried so hard the Time Out teacher thought he was having a seizure. He just started second grade this week, so he is seven. The crying and self esteem things have been going on all summer, that hasn’t started new with the school year. He had a lot of discipline and tantrum problems last year but when we took him out of the Afterschool Program, a child care program in the school, he had a much easier time at school. But this year we are letting him walk home from school because his father is home.

I think there is a possibility that he is being bullied as well. I am going over to the school tomorrow morning look into it. In the three days he has been in school, he has come home twice with big band aids and scrapes on him. He has a cut on his knee that didn’t happen at home. He is in an inner city school, well as inner city as our town has, that has a high hispanic and possibly gang affliated population. He is a long haired, blond, blue eyed child who speaks no Spanish. He was teased last year about his hair and we cut it a bit but he grew it out over the summer and doesn’t want to cut it again. He is highly imaginative and a bit of a loner. He takes after his parents there. His teacher says he is highly intelligent and she is impressed with him there.

He is also an only child. And even though I am married to his father, his father is a distant, very solitary, very depressed man. He has worked nights and slept days most of Bear’s life. He has spent very little time with him and isn’t really the “parent on the spot” type of person.

Bear is used to not having to share much although he good at sharing. But being an only child he is used to having my attention and time. He likes being the leader at school and today he had a tantrum because his teacher asked him to hold the door open after recess. He said he hates to be last. Both her and I have explained to him that he has to share being a leader.

His teacher has several jobs for the kids to do, holding doors, passing out papers, leading in the pledge. I am wondering if its right to force him to do things he doesnt like doing. However, I understand as well that he can’t ALWAYS be first and do ONLY the things he wants to do. Maybe since he likes to be the leader so much I should discuss with her the possibility of giving him more responsibility? Maybe some kind of job in the classroom that she usually does… I remember how much I enjoyed having a special job that was all my own when I was in elementary.

And I’ll be honest, I don’t think I would like his teacher as a teacher either. She is a very crisp, business like person… just the sort of person that has made me feel inadequate all my life.

So what do y’all think? Should I take him to our GP or should I start with the councilor at school first?

[StGermain]

Depression in children is a real thing. But5 to be honest with you, to me he doesn’t sound depressed, he sounds spoiled. He wants his way. The “I wish I was dead” comments are there to provoke a response from you. If you hug him, console him or give into him because he’s said something of that nature, you’re reinforcing that behaviour. At 7 he’s old enough to know the world doesn’t revolve around him, and he doesn’t always get what he wants. It sounds to me like a structed teacher is the person to give him the discipline he needs.

Clinical depression (from the viewpoint of an adult who suffers from it) is more withdrawing from the activities you normally enjoy. It’s not anger so much as it is apathy. Nothing seems fun, nothing gets you excited. I’m not saying that he doesn’t have psychological problems, but to me (in my very non-medical way) it seems that I’d try some non-medical alternatives first.

You might consider putting him in the after-school program if his father is distant, even though he’s home. Some other group activities like cub scouts or karate lessons might teach him more appropriate group behaviour as well as give him some friends.

StG

[plain_jane]

I think some of what you’ve said can be perfectly normal for his age. Some of my friends have kids that age that do the same thing–“I hate myself!”, “I wish I was dead!”, “Nobody likes me!”, “I’m so stupid!” when they are in trouble with their parents or when one of the other children upsets them, or if they are having trouble with their schoolwork.

I don’t think it means he’s spoiled. Not at all.

However, it could be that he is upset about something, or possibly even that he would meet the criteria for depression if a doctor evaluated him. I don’t know, but if you are worried, definitely talk to your doctor, and keep an eye on your child’s moods.

Does the school have a competent counsellor?

[j.c]

I don’t know what your financial or time situation is. If you have the time and money, could you find Bear an activity he enjoys?

If you give him a chance to succeed and enjoy something for a couple of afternoons or weekends, then perhaps you’ll see that this is just a sucky school year. We all have to suffer a couple of those.

I hope that he’s just a very expressive child, and expressing normal feelings LOUDLY, rather than a child with serious problems.

Whatever else you do, please talk to school counselors. It’s every important to be known to the school administration. They need to know who you are, and what your concerns are. That way, if you need them down the road, then you have a history with the administration. Additionally, the counselors may feel that his behavior warrants more attention. (If they do, please get a second opinion!)

[Primaflora]

Krisfer if you want to email me, I’m happy to talk about kids and depression and presentation and to brainstorm ideas. FWIW what you described to me was a coherent description of how depression can present in a child. Depression in young children is very different to depression in adults or adolescents.

Doesn’t sound spoiled to me at all but rather that he is struggling with stuff. LMK if I can be of use. I won’t do it on the boards as I’m not happy to talk about what happened for us here in detail.

[Computer_Guru]

*Originally posted by StGermain *
**
Clinical depression (from the viewpoint of an adult who suffers from it) is more withdrawing from the activities you normally enjoy. It’s not anger so much as it is apathy. Nothing seems fun, nothing gets you excited. I’m not saying that he doesn’t have psychological problems, but to me (in my very non-medical way) it seems that I’d try some non-medical alternatives first.

StG **

I would just like to add if I may that through some research that I have done, kids and teenagers suffering from depression show it through anger as well as apathy. They don’t cry as much as get angry and frustrated.

I don’t know about your kid, but I would take him to a medical doctor and have him fully evaluated. It just sounds like he is saying this stuff only when he is in trouble. Does he say this stuff when he isn’t in trouble?

[Krisfer_the_Cat]

*Originally posted by Computer Guru *
**doctor and have him fully evaluated. It just sounds like he is saying this stuff only when he is in trouble. Does he say this stuff when he isn’t in trouble? **

I should have been clearer: yes he does say these things at times other than when he is disciplined. He cried last summer when he was overtired. I think stress has more to do with it than attention.

[Computer_Guru]

*Originally posted by Krisfer the Cat *
**I should have been clearer: yes he does say these things at times other than when he is disciplined. He cried last summer when he was overtired. I think stress has more to do with it than attention. **

You better get him to see a doctor. You know for depression, a person had to experience persistant depression symptons for at least 2 weeks. Here is some information on depression and how to notice it.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/depchildresfact.cfm

Here is a list of symptons in adults and kids:

**Symptoms of Major Depressive Disorder Common to Adults, Children, and Adolescents14
Persistent sad or irritable mood
Loss of interest in activities once enjoyed
Significant change in appetite or body weight
Difficulty sleeping or oversleeping
Psychomotor agitation or retardation
Loss of energy
Feelings of worthlessness or inappropriate guilt
Difficulty concentrating
Recurrent thoughts of death or suicide
Five or more of these symptoms must persist for 2 or more weeks before a diagnosis of major depression is indicated.

**

and symptons common for adolescents and children.

**Signs That May Be Associated with Depression in Children and Adolescents
Frequent vague, non-specific physical complaints such as headaches, muscle aches, stomachaches or tiredness
Frequent absences from school or poor performance in school
Talk of or efforts to run away from home
Outbursts of shouting, complaining, unexplained irritability, or crying
Being bored
Lack of interest in playing with friends
Alcohol or substance abuse
Social isolation, poor communication
Fear of death
Extreme sensitivity to rejection or failure
Increased irritability, anger, or hostility
Reckless behavior
Difficulty with relationships
**

[AmericanMaid]

He is in an inner city school, well as inner city as our town has, that has a high hispanic and possibly gang affliated population.

This comment disturbs me a bit. Maybe he’s struggling in school due to what he has learned at home. See above.
Also, being an only child creates a lot of obstacles early on which will crop up later in life. It sounds like you and your husband aren’t planning for another child am I correct?
I was a fairly expressive, emotional child when I was growing up. I used to cry in school and say I wish I was dead. Until a teacher taunted me about it in front of the whole class. I also used to come home with lots of scrapes, cuts, and bruises. Because I was an active kid. I was also being physically abused by my mentally unstable father back then. So, have you checked up on your husband’s interactions with your child?

[Krisfer_the_Cat]

*Originally posted by AmericanMaid *
This comment disturbs me a bit. Maybe he’s struggling in school due to what he has learned at home. See above.

"He is in an inner city school, well as inner city as our town has, that has a high hispanic and possibly gang affliated population. He is a long haired, blond, blue eyed child who speaks no Spanish. "
So you are saying I am a racist because I acknowledge that he is in a school with a lot of hispanic kids. Many of which don’t speak English and have very different home lives than we do?

Also, being an only child creates a lot of obstacles early on which will crop up later in life. It sounds like you and your husband aren’t planning for another child am I correct?

Well I’d like another child but nature has other ideas. It took almost two years to concieve him. Thanks for rubbing that in. Not to mention I know plenty of only children who are much better adjusted than people from muti-children families.

I was a fairly expressive, emotional child when I was growing up. I used to cry in school and say I wish I was dead. Until a teacher taunted me about it in front of the whole class.

That teacher and the district would be ooking down the barrel of a lawsuit if that happened to my child.

I also used to come home with lots of scrapes, cuts, and bruises. Because I was an active kid. I was also being physically abused by my mentally unstable father back then. So, have you checked up on your husband’s interactions with your child?

So you are saying I should ignore the posibility that he is being bullied? He never had cuts and scrapes last year and I think twice in three days is a bit high for coincidence.
As for your other allegation: that’s just nasty. I know very well what happens between my child and his father…

[AmericanMaid]

I was just trying to throw out some suggestions with a couple personal anecdotes. Your comment about the school, inner city, Latino children and gangs caught my attention because there’s a difference between valuing differences and pointing out differences. Especially with children.

I wasn’t trying to rub in any fertility issues. I was completely unaware of any problems. I’m sorry you thought I was insulting you. The only children who I have met in my life are great people but some do wish they had siblings and see some personal problems stemming from being only children.

About the cuts and scrapes thing, I wasn’t saying ignore possible bullying. But kids do get hurt if they’re active. I’d keep an eye out for unusual injuries like black eyes, nail scratches etc.

Also my advice about your child’s father comes from my life. I wasn’t trying to be nasty. I tried to phrase my suggestion carefully. My mother didn’t know for 24 years of my life that my father abused me. I’m just trying to save you the heartache she went through. I’ll bow out of this topic because my advice makes you defensive and that’s not helpful.

I’m sorry you and your kid are having such a tough time and I hope things will get better soon.

[Snowcarpet]

Krisfer the Cat,
I can mail you a fat packet of information on Childhood Depression, if you want. Providing child health information is my actual job! Just send me your snail mail (we are serious about privacy.) You can use this form to send your info (go to the send e-mail link) :
http://www.akronchildrens.org/depts-services/resource-frc.html
I have a bunch of great info at my fingertips, and I’m happy to share (and the info is free.)
-Snowcarpet

[Krisfer_the_Cat]

Thanks Snowcarpet email sent.
I really appreciate the help from you all. I feel terribly lost by not having my Mom to talk things over with… So I never know if I am overreacting(who ME? )

I think I’ll try doing some positive things with him this weekend and see how he is next week. I talked to his teacher this morning and she said she isn’t forcing him to do the jobs( like passing papers) that he doesn’t want to do and she is working with the whole class on attention and manners so we’ll see how it goes. His principal is going to look into my concerns that he could be getting bullied.

All in all I feel much better this morning than last night.

[Snowcarpet]

Krisfer the Cat,
Check your e-mail for a quick question from me (whether you’d prefer real mail or e-mail.) If you want real mail, send addy.
-Snowcarpet

[irishgirl]

Give him a hug for me Krisfer.

As long as he knows you’re on his side, and that you can help him sort out his problems, he’ll be ok. The worst thing is feeling powerless, and that your parents can’t help you either.

I’m glad you’re feeling more in control of the situation, best wishes for you all.

[Suse]

Krisfer

I agree with the suggestion that you speak to his school counselor and also that you see his G.P. Either should be able to give you a reference to a mental health counselor.

My daughter was moody, irritable, and oversensitive. She was teased at school and felt she had no friends. It started around her 4th grade year, and I thought it was just puberty starting early. In 6th grade, she planned and very nearly attempted suicide. We were just lucky that she didn’t make the attempt. I had her at the doctor’s office the very next day.

Eventually, she was diagnosed with clinical depression. The psychiatrist we saw told me that he has seen children as young as 9 months old with clinical depression.

The medication my daughter was prescribed has worked wonders; she’s a happy, confident 8th grader with many friends now. She still uses the skills she was taught in counseling to help herself and also her friends when they are down.

Please, run, don’t walk, to get your child some help. Sitting on suicide watch with a child who is afraid she won’t be able to keep herself from attempting suicide is something no parent would want to see happen to anyone else. It really can get that serious, and at a very young age.

[Blonde]

I am so sorry to hear of your troubles, Krisfer the Cat! I certainly hope you have the ability to take your son to a good doctor - and is there any chance you can switch schools, if you’re in the public school system? We moved north out of Dallas last year because we a) couldn’t afford to spend close to $200k getting our kids through 12th grade in private school; b) the public schools were absolutely horrible. You shouldn’t pay taxes to put your child through a subpar school. Rattle some cages!!

My thoughts are with you!!