He’s a person, not an ideal. We can point out where people, even good people, fail to live up to their potential. We can point it out hoping that the next time, since there is always a next time, that person, or some other person, will do better.
That’s fine. But it can be pointed out without making stuff up as the OP did in the Pit.
Liberal makes an impassioned defence but it is fair to call Obama out on this matter, if not to impugn him as a bad human being (which is not, I think, what’s being said by the OP or anyone else here). It is a relevant and notable point that Obama never spoke out against the implicit and sometimes explicit Islamophobia that was at the root of the criticism of his middle name, his Muslim past and his father’s side of the family. All of these things were presented by those opposed to him as being negatives, which makes no sense unless you consider being Muslim an inherently negative thing. So Obama may have said, hey, I’m not a Muslim, but he certainly never really called out those bigots who attempted to use his Islamic connections as a slander against him for what they were implying about Islam in general. The point about if it had been a comment on Jewish ancestry is apt and on the nose. He should have said something, but accepted that the political climate of the current US population might lose favour with him if he did, so he accepted a certain degree of Islamophobia (no assumption that he himself is an Islamophobe!) for political expediency, and in the greater realm of principle he is thus found wanting on this measure.
I did chuckle when he said at the Al Smith Dinner that he had been given his middle name by someone who obviously never thought he’d run for President.
[ol]
[li]My “bitching” about him with my “whiny” and “piddly shit” is not about to “destroy this one.”[/li][li]My admiration for Obama, my having worked for Obama, my having donated to his campaign, my belief that he has the potential to be one of the best Presidents in history, does not mean that I have no freedom to be critical of him as I see fit. I reserve the right to complain when he falls short of his potential as I see it. He is not perfect and I refuse to pretend that he is because it offends you.[/li][li]Not all criticism of Obama is part of a neferious Right wing spin machine spewing out lies. And this is a mild criticism of him and his team - more a comment on the severity of Islamophobia in this country.[/li][/ol]
BTW what exactly are accusing me of having “made up”? I was unaware of his statement on Larry King and on his web site and apologized for overstating the case by saying that he hadn’t fought aganst it in “any way”. Is that it?
You quoted yourself in your OP, having contrasted him with Colin Powell, asserting that Powell had attacked “those prejudices” while Obama had not. You did not know the facts, and so took a chance that your assertion would be true. It wasn’t. In fact, the example you cited of Powell is strikingly similar to what Obama actually did — attacking those prejudices during an interview on a television broadcast. Except that Obama’s was far wider reaching and was broadcast multiple times, and was even On Demand for a spell.
Note how that snowball rolls. Scule has come into the thread a couple posts above to spout the exact same made up shit. Incredibly, even after ostensibly reading your OP in which you at least set the record straight, he writes, “[Obama] certainly never really called out those bigots who attempted to use his Islamic connections as a slander against him for what they were implying about Islam in general”.
I believe that, at this point, ethical culpability switches to you. There are people out there, like Scule, who are making up things because of ignorance — notice even the bizarre “his Muslim past” reference — and unless you speak out as you’ve demanded Obama do, you are enabling his kind to use your thread as a platform for spreading even more misinformation. It is remarkable, in fact, that after Scule posted you continue to come back at me with your incredulous arguments, but leave his ignorant rhetorical puke to smell up the place.
The topic is absurd. Your arguments are not only bad, but misdirected. And now every nutter lurking out there has a vehicle for perpetuating false rumors. You may have a right to complain, but you have a duty to stomp out that kind of garbage.
You may be right.
But I think his response would have been very different in that case.
Due to the Muslims in his father’s family, I think he treated the Muslim claim with more restraint than it probably deserved in most cases. There was just enough information out there to make even some reasonable people believe it. In this thread, note Scule’s reference to Obama’s “Muslim past.” It is precisely because of people like Scule, who lack information but are not malicious, that Obama showed restraint.
Similarly, if his father’s family had been largely Jewish, I think he would have shown restraint in responding to claims that he himself was Jewish.
If not for his father’s family and the places he had lived, I am confident that he would have blasted the accusers for their Islamophobia even more than he actually did.
Seriously, you are jumping to the worst conclusion about the guy. Try giving him just a little benefit of the doubt.
Funny. I have first-hand experience with regards to the Detroit event at Joe Louis Arena. I was an organizer that worked for the campaign in two states. I was one of 21 people that extra clearance from the Secret Service to be the people sitting behind Barack. The other people with me were people that were some of our best volunteers.
Now, to put on an event like this takes an amazing amount of manpower. Really, to run a campaign, it takes a lot of manpower, but these events are pretty concentrated blasts of manpower. Because of that, we needed more volunteers to help out. Some volunteers were there the day before to go over a dry run and what it may be like. Other volunteers came in the day of the event and helped out then and there.
A volunteer sat our section down, but she sat us in the wrong spot. We were the very top couple of rows right above the entrance where the dignitaries came out onto the stage instead of the spots we were “supposed” to get. A volunteer made the decision to swap us out, and the volunteer sat us in the wrong section. (As an aside, the volunteer was one of the people sitting behind Barack, which made some of the people in my area to believe that the person that sat us in the wrong spot did so knowingly.) Even though I was there, I was still trying to help out. I passed signs up the crowd and tried to keep the peace and tried to shuttle kids closer to the railing so they could see the action better and closer.
There were two separate incidents at The Joe. The first one was a young woman that was sitting behind Barack, the other was sitting in a section on the opposite side of the arena, and if memory serves me right, in the upper bowl. The first incident happened rows away from me, although I did not see the event take place. It was a volunteer, culled from the masses either that day or the day before the event that did it.
The day after, a person I know was in touch with both of the women that were wronged, to get the full story and to hear it directly from them. Later that day, Barack called them. For the record, one of the women was a Canadian citizen that made the trip north to come to the event. The other was a University of Michigan-educated lawyer that does defamation cases.
Additionally, with regards to walking the tightrope, some of that is correct. Muslim and Arab people are in a very tough bind these days with regards to getting equal treatment. The territory I worked in is the largest Arab community outside of the Middle East. Little things that had no bearing at all on the election made huge waves there. Huge things that meant a lot to the rest of the populace didn’t register at all there.
As speeches happened, and as I hear/read some sporadically, I see little phrases and quotes, placed in there for the community that I worked with.
I’m not Muslim. I’m a committed Christian. Not that there’s anything wrong with Muslims. They’re good, hardworking people, however, I’m not Muslim. That’s an example of the kind of rhetoric that had to be struck. He couldn’t sway either way because it would have been harmful either way. The Arab and Muslim community supported Barack very strongly. The only community that I’ve worked with that supported him even stronger were people from Africa. Arabs and Muslims supported him for the same reason that Africans supported him. It wasn’t because they thought he was one of them; it was because he is a very smart person that understands the plight of the minorities, being one himself and because of the change that he represented.
Lib,
No, I did not “make up” anything even if I overstated the case. Despite that admitted overreach my, really minor, point remains something I stand by. I think I possibly followed Obama’s campaign as closely as you did, maybe not as closely as Shayna, but hey, I can only be so obsessive! 
I heard many many statements from Obama and company about how it wasn’t true that he was a Muslim, about how he was a good Christian. I honestly never heard any of his statements mentioning that y’know, so what if he was? I believe you. He made them. But infrequently enough that this obsessive follower/supporter never heard it and I was listening for it. That was my experience and I stand by it.
Our take on the significance of that experience obviously differs. You see my interpretation as some serious attack on Obama’s essence and a threat to his ability to govern. I see it as a comment, sadly, on how pervasive Islamophobia is in the American electorate. I recognize that such a magnitude of public Islamophobia made such a decision, and yes I believe that it was a calculated decision, a necessary and intelligent political decision to make. And it still left me with a bad taste.
This you perceive as an existential threat to Obama’s ability to govern? Get real.
Can you please explain what you think about Marley’s conclusion (or mine for that matter) about Obama is so bad?
It seems that the conclusion that we’ve reached is just that Obama and his team were very effective politicians playing the political calculus well. No one here has accused him or his team of doing or thinking anything hateful. We’ve merely bemoaned the fact that any realistic play of the American political landscape this election cycle had to make some concession to the reality of Islamophobia. Being a skillful, effective, and pragmatic politician is not an insult. It is a skill needed both to win and to govern. It does not mean that one is without principles. An effective politician leads but they lead where they know can succeed in getting the public to follow and they choose which battles are the most important ones to fight and when. Obama excels at knowing how to play the hands he is dealt and he knows which hands to fold so he can win the night overall. To maximize his odds of winning he needed to maximally distance himself from any association with Islam because of the massive Islamophobia in this country. Speaking more loudly against Islamophobia would place him metaphorically “standing with Muslims” and he was not in position to afford that risk. I am sad about that but I accept it.
Does it offend you to think that Obama is a skillful politician who can make the pragmatic decisions and would not be someone who would needlessly risk sacrificing an election for the principle of standing up against Islamophobia in any more significant way during the election season? Are you so naive as to think that he is not that pragmatic and skillful a politician?
Whether or not you agree with it, what is so offensive about what I have said, Carmady?
I find both Liberal’s and Carmandy’s response distasteful and unfortunate, but I suppose it bears further clarification on my part. I see DSeid’s argument as being that Obama was “called out” for being a Muslim and unfortunately accepted the political reality that he could not speak to vehemently against this foolish accusation or supposition for fear of alienating the people he wanted voting for him. He may have made statements to the effect of “So what if I was a Muslim?” in an interview, but the simple truth is he didn’t do this to anywhere near the degree a more principled response to the negative comments would have warranted. You may disagree with that, but even though I am not an American, I followed the campaign regularly and closely, as it was far more fascinating than our own up here.
As for my comments on his Muslim past, let’s not get all semantic here. Obama has a Muslim past, in the same way I have a Croatian past. I’ve never been to Bosnia or Croatia, where my father is from, but I have a Croatian father and I’ve been exposed to the culture and language most of my life. That doesn’t mean I consider myself Croatian, it just implies the connection. Obama has a Muslim connection, if not a membership in the faith, it’s as simple as that.
The root of this thread is a lament for the current state of Islamophobia in the US and how it forced a man who seems strongly principled and righteous to forsake any significant degree of zeal in combating ignorance and bigotry in deferrence to the need to get elected. No one is going to say that Obama is evil, or wish to see him deposed, because of what transpired, but in a better word he would have been much more free to repeatedly and decisively call out those idiots who attacked him for having connections to Islam.
Well, we’re all connected to Kevin Bacon.
Mmm. Bacon.
His middle name is Hussein! Keeping the use of that name to a minimum is not Islamophobia. You might have a point if his middle name were Akbar or Muhammad.
Would Obama’s actions (or inaction) be considered anti-German if his middle name were Goebbels or Hitler? Or are there other reasons besides bigotry for discouraging publicity over the fact that his middle name is the same as a recently-executed brutal dictator and all-around enemy of the United States?
Not to mention that his last name is one typo away from enemy number one. (A typo that crept its way onto Fox Noise’s crawler at least once.)