I pit the "F.Y.I. Obama" email and provide a rebuttal - Please send it around

Fellow American Dopers:

There is yet another ugly, racist mass email making the rounds again, this time spreading vicious lies about and attacking Barack Obama as a Muslim, a traitor, a member of some “black power” group, and a racist (oh, the irony!)

Now, I well understand that many people who read and pass this kind of bullshit around aren’t the brightest folks, and many of them will refuse to accept any correction whatsoever. That’s okay, since there’s nothing that can be done for them.

On the other hand, I believe the majority of the people who’ll see this and not know the truth – dull-witted though they may be – are open to being corrected and learning the facts on this and other issues.

So let’s help inform those that are open to being informed, shall we? Fighting ignorance and all that?

So I urge you all to either copy the contents of this post or copy its URL and email that to all your friends, family, and co-workers. Whaddya say, dopers? Are we gonna kick some ignorant asses or just sit on ours and do nothing?

Please do it. Perhaps you may then sleep a bit more the comfortable sleep of someone who has done a patriotic good deed.

Thank you.

  • ambushed
    (Sorry about the colors and all, but that’s the way I got it. If you wish to copy the contents, and you use an HTML-capable email client such as Thunderbird, the colors will transfer fine during a simple copy and paste. Otherwise, you might wish to make sure using some other technique that the original words of the ugly email are made distinct from my responses. As for the all-caps “shouting”, I did this in order to avoid bold and italics and so forth in case this is sent out as plain text).
    ============================================================================

This is to set the record straight on a scurrilous mass email making the rounds spreading many ugly, racist lies about Barack Obama, his faith, his church, and even his name. Please read it carefully.

These facts come from an extremely well-respected, rarely – if ever – faulted, highly popular web site known as “snopes.com”. Snopes is the number one source for carefully investigating the facts and truth behind emails such as the one to which I’m replying and reporting the findings.

Pay heed to this correct, factual information, please.

Here begins the original email contents. I will intersperse my reply with the facts of each claim in turn.


Obama sounds anti American to me.

–> He is NOTHING of the kind. He is as loyal and patriotic an American as they come!

On the church’s web site in their magazine there is an article glorifying Louis Farrakan [color=navy][sic - the correct spelling is: Farrakhan] which enforces my concern about Obama’s Muslim ties.[/color]

–> Let me clarify a few things on that point:

First, the article is simply in some church-sponsored magazine, which Obama has absolutely no ties with and which Obama has no say or control over. He can’t help it that some unnamed person – probably not even directly involving the pastor of that church – chose to write an article which is merely an interview with Farrakhan, whom I believe any sane, rational, sober person should despise.

Second, while it is true that the title of that article is: “The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan”, the word “honorable” in that context is simply an honorific. It is precisely the same thing as when other ministers are referred to as “The Right Honorable Minister John Smith”. It in no way implies that the person is actually honorable, since it is just a common title for ministers.

Third, the article itself – which is very short (just 718 words) – is quite innocent and harmless, and in no way praises Islam or “black power” or anything like that at all. While it does show polite respect for [color=navy]Farrakhan, something you or I would likely never do, it is simply being courteous.

Finally, Obama, the church, the magazine, and everything else about it is completely and totally Christian.

Obama mentioned his church during his appearance with Oprah. It’s the Trinity Church of Christ. I found this interesting.

Obama’s church.

Please read and go to this church’s website and read what is written there. It is very alarming.

–> There is nothing about this fully Christian church that is in the least offensive or even unlikable (except, perhaps, to racists), let alone “very alarming”! That’s simply foolish!

Barack Obama is a member of this church and is running for President of the U.S. If you look at the first page of their website, you will learn that this congregation has a non-negotiable commitment to Africa.

–> That last comment, while technically accurate, has been unkindly and irrationally exploited by the author of those words merely to inflame hatred, racism, and fear.

First, the site opens with nothing more than this:

“Enter his gates with thanksgiving and his courts with praise; give thanks to him and praise his name.” – Psalm 100:4

Second, the church and the site describes itself as follows:

“We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian… Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain “true to our native land,” the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.”

The reference to a “non-negotiable commitment to Africa” is merely their way of saying that they will always support – in the finest Christian tradition – that continent’s needs, rights, and hopes for peace. That’s ALL.

No where is AMERICA even mentioned.

–> So what? That comment is just so much ugly jingoism. I just scoured my local Catholic Church’s web site, and THEY never mention AMERICA either!

Notice too, what color you will need to be if you should want to join Obama’s church… B-L-A-C-K!!!

–> That’s just another blatant, racist lie. There is not even the slightest HINT that you have to be black to join!

Doesn’t look like his choice of religion has improved much over his (former?) Muslim upbringing.

–> Sigh. That’s just another ugly, vicious, mud-slinging lie! Obama was NEVER a Muslim! He was ALWAYS a devout Christian! While it is true that Obama’s FATHER was raised as a Muslim, his FATHER had openly ended all his ties with Islam and openly became an agnostic by the time he married Obama’s mother (i.e., long before Barack Obama was born!)

As a young child, Barack Obama and his mother moved to Indonesia where her job was. During Barack’s earliest 4-5 school years, he mostly attended a Catholic elementary school. However, for various economic and practical reasons, Barack also attended another school at times during those 4-5 years. This was not a “Muslim school” or “madras”! It was simply the case that, since most people in Indonesia are Muslims, most of his classmates happened to be Muslims. After those 4-5 years were over, Barack moved back to the United States to live with his Christian grandmother and from there on out attended nothing other than public or Christian schools and churches. There is nothing more to the whole story!

Are you aware that Obama’s middle name is Mohammed?

–> That is yet another ugly, mean-spirited, xenophobic lie. His middle name is actually Hussein. While stupid, ugly racists and xenophobes will consider that just as bad, that too is extremely stupid and unjust. Barack Hussein Obama was simply named in honor of his father, whose name was also Barack Hussein Obama. There is nothing more to the whole story!

Strip away his nice looks, the big smile and smooth talk and what do you get? Certainly a racist, as plainly defined by the stated position of his church!

–> What a FILTHY, DESPICABLE LIE! He is not now, nor has he EVER been, a racist! The author of the ugly email to which I’m responding obviously IS a foul, ugly racist though! And as I calmly and factually reported earlier, there is nothing racist about his church, either!

And possibly a covert worshiper of the Muslim faith, even today.

–> Nonsense! He was never a Muslim and never “worshiped” the Muslim faith in his entire life!

This guy desires to rule over America while his loyalty is totally vested in a Black Africa!

–> What an astoundingly stupid, ignorant and evil thing to say! First, he does not desire to “rule over America”, he wants to be the duly elected President of the United States, who must pledge to honor, uphold, and protect the Constitution of the United States! His loyalty has ever and always been 110% to America and her great, noble ideals and principles! WOW, what an evil, racist ass the author of the email is!

I cannot believe this has not been all over the TV and newspapers.

–> That should tell everyone something vitally important: If you do not see a major story such as this would be if true “all over the TV and newspapers”, that’s because it’s just a set of lies, falsehoods, and ugly, racist hatred!

this is why it is so important to pass this message along to all of our family & friends.[/color]

–> Yes! Pass THIS version of my email to EVERYONE, please! Let everyone know that you are not some stupid, hate-fueled racist and liar like the author and believers of the original email are. You will be bestowing yourselves, your friends, and your families a great, American honor. You will be upholding your end of one of the most vital duties of noble Citizenship in this great, free land of America: Helping to better and accurately inform our beloved fellow citizens, so that we may all openly participate in our noble duties and responsibilities of wisely electing our leaders.

It does not matter in the least if you support Obama’s Presidential hopes or not. All that matters is that our fellow citizens have the true facts about all the candidates.

For more factual information on this issue, please point your browsers to these two pages at Snopes.com:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/church.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

Have a great day!

While I applaud your intent, it’s a bit of a ‘Is!’ ‘Isn’t!’ kind of email.

I appreciate what you’re saying, but you’re coming across almost as hysterical as the original message. A more restrained tone in your response would gather more respect (IMO).

Oh, I can’t agree with that at all! Your remark suggests that there are two roughly equal sides to the story, which is complete and total nonsense. There’s the lies, distortions, and vicious personal attacks on one side, and the full and complete truth and facts on the other.

Your remark therefore rather puzzles me.

Thank you, but I’ve heard those very same words before, but they’ve never been suitable or correct in a situation such as this. What you say would be perfectly true if the typical reader of this piece was intelligent, informed, and calmly rational. But such is simply not the case, surely, or they would not need to be informed of the facts in the first place – they would look it up and discover the truth for themselves.

Thus, a significant amount strong emphasis is precisely what the doctor ordered.

Thank you anyway, though.

Wow, so his middle name is Muhammed?

I also appreciate the intent behind this, but think you could be more concise. Your rebuttal far outweighs the original email in bulk, and presumably the type of people who would read and digest the original soundbite slurs might not find the lengthy truth so readable.

IANAYank either, so will ‘butt out’…

That’s a sound suggestion, thanks. I just wonder how significantly I can compress it while still leaving all the necessary information.

One easy thing to do is to cut down on all the characterizations of the original author, which might or might not be a good idea.

Please feel free to post your own suggested revisions, and I’ll seriously consider asking the mods to edit my OP.

No dog in this fight either, but a more pertinent rebuttal might well be - so what if he is/was a Muslim?

To be honest though, you’re never going to be able to fight racist fire like that - people with an ounce of intelligence see these things for what they are, the rest are going to go with the easy soundbites they get off Fox and from their equally brainless friends.

You know, on further consideration, it strikes me as a good idea to pursue in any event (i.e., reduce all the angry characterizations, that is).

I’ll wait for a while to see if others have additional suggestions, then I will ask the mods to revise the OP.

(Actually, I wanted to make one or two changes immediately after submitting it, but unfortunately, the severs went unavailable from the very moment I pressed the “edit” button. So I’ve already asked the mods to make one change already. I hope they won’t be annoyed if I ask them to apply another change).

You know, ambushed, after reading your post, I can’t help but wonder…is there any more to the whole story?

No. Something else. Saddam, I think. :wink:

Well, the entire claim is utterly false, for one thing. Why not try to correct error and ignorance in such an important instance as choosing the next President?

Again, I very strongly disagree! I am quite convinced there are a huge number of basically good-hearted, basically open-minded people who will read such a thing and accept it – not gullibly or stupidly – but simply because it appears to the ordinary person to be more calm and credible than not, has the air of a legitimate scoop (they may think:“you know, you just can’t expect the damn liberal media to report things like this”), and perhaps they simply don’t have the time, the inclination, the links, or the knack to learn the truth themselves.

Don’t you think that’s at least a reasonable working hypothesis?

I know that’s completely true of most of my own family, who are indeed basically good-hearted, basically open-minded people who read it and accepted it. Not because they’re dumb or ignorant or racists or xenophobic, but just because it was the path of least effort. After I sent out my email response to them, I received several notes of thanks for making it so easy to learn the truth of the matter.

Furthermore, if readers do follow the link to that church’s web site, it does indeed have a respectfully admiring interview with Farrakhan, and it does indeed say on one page that they have a “non-negotiable commitment to Africa”. That somewhat dubious-sounding and possibly even “alarming” phrase (though innocent in reality) might easily cause the overage reader to come to the wrong conclusions, don’t you think?

Sorry, my psychic power is of too low a power to be able to know whether you’re having a bit of fun with me or you’re serious.

I’m dogless in this fight too but I think it’s too much. There are people who’ll not believe the original (or do their own research) so you’re not convincing them. There are people who’ll believe the original no matter what, they’re a lost cause.

Of the other people you’re just going to make them think there’s something there because you’re taking so long for a rebuttal. When you could just say,

And maybe bang in the snopes links.

Yes, that was my point. Maybe we’re a little more fatalistic (cynical?) than ambushed

I hear he paid for his Madrassa education with Monopoly money!

No, no, no. His middle name is ‘SUPPORTS TERRORISM’.

Everybody here knows that. He’s talking about the tone you employed, which is somewhat off-putting. You can be right and still deliver your message the wrong way.

If you’re going to ask for responses and then react to them like this, why bother asking for the responses?

You sure you want to engage people you’re describing as unintelligent? It’s rarely worth the bother. Bites’s point, confirmed by these comments, is that you’re contemptuous of the people you are writing to. You think they’re too dumb to notice, or something, but you’re wrong. You’d do better to calmly offer some facts, and to make your e-mail much shorter. If you’re going to reply at all.

As long as we’re pitting, it seems like the “Who is Barack Obama” is back out in force since the Iowa caucuses. I got one from my grandfather yesterday - three "Fwd"s before the subject line, which is always a good sign. My reply to him was intended more to scold than to inform, since I was mad at him for passing it on and especially for bothering me with it. So I wrote about four sentences “Almost NONE of this is true”) and that was it.

I recently received an anti-Obama e-mail from an acquaintance who is a holy roller born again Christian. It’s the old one about his attending the Muslim school in Indonesia, radical Wahabbinism and being sworn in with his hand on the Koran. Yeah, the total crapfest. :rolleyes:

I was tired of her praising Jesus on one hand and then spouting off with bigoted shit on the other so I decided to respond. I e-mailed her that the entire e-mail had been debunked by Snopes and CNN over a year ago and I provided links to prove my point. Then I decided to let her have it with both barrels by telling her that it was wrong to not only be passing judgment on someone that she didn’t know, especially without checking the facts, but also to be spreading lies about them. I then provided quotes from her favorite book:

Gee, I wonder why she won’t talk to me now? :smiley:

The trouble with your attempted rebuttal is that you can really only effectively rebut glurge if they have misinformation that you can counter with the actual facts. The only actual misinformation that the e-mail has, that I can see, is the statement that his middle name is Mohammed. The rest of it is all simply innuendo, and as noted, when you start trying to rebut innuendo, all you can do is insist, “Is not! Is too!”

It’s all just opinion, see? And you can’t “debunk” opinion.

Break it down and look at it dispassionately:

Opinion.

One true fact and one opinion.

Two true facts, and one opinion.

Opinion.

Two true facts.

Since the website itself says, “We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black”, sounds to me like this is a Fact. Maybe you don’t have to be black to join, but yeah, it’s a Black church.

Opinion.

This is a trick question. It’s like saying, “Are you aware that Niagara’s so-called ‘American’ Falls belongs to Canada?” In other words, it’s not a deliberate lie; it’s merely a creative way of packaging an un-truth, and so does not technically count as a “lie” that you can debunk. “Are you aware that Britney Spears has joined a convent? Are you aware that the moon is made of green cheese?” You’re asking the listener, “Are you aware…” of a thing, but that thing does not necessarily have to be true.

Opinion.

Opinion.

Opinion.

Opinion.

Opinion.

Really, you’ve got nothing but opinions here. There’s nothing you can debunk as such. Save your pixels.

ambushed writes:

> Sigh. That’s just another ugly, vicious, mud-slinging lie! Obama was NEVER a
> Muslim! He was ALWAYS a devout Christian! While it is true that Obama’s
> FATHER was raised as a Muslim, his FATHER had openly ended all his ties with
> Islam and openly became an agnostic by the time he married Obama’s mother
> (i.e., long before Barack Obama was born!)

This isn’t quite accurate. Barack Obama’s father was an atheist by the time he was married. He could hardly have had any effect on Obama’s faith, since he and Obama’s mother were divorced when Obama was two years old, and he seldom saw Obama after that. Obama’s mother simply wasn’t religious (although she might have been raised as a Christian), and she didn’t raise Obama as anything. Obama’s stepfather was raised Moslem, but he very seldom went to mosque, and he didn’t raise Obama as anything either. Obama was thus not always a devout Christian. He was simply non-religious as a child. He was out of college before he became a Christian. Of course, it could be argued that this makes Obama’s faith more likely to be genuine than any of a number of other Presidential candidates who grew up in a particular church and never left it. In any case, it’s still true that Obama was never Moslem in any sense.