Die, National Board of Law Examiners

The BBQ Pit
21

I don’t know why Washington doesn’t use the Multistate, but I’m extremely grateful they don’t. Having passed one bar with the Multistate exam (MT) and then one without (WA), I can tell you that IMO the WA exam (essay only) is way easier.

I have no comment on the value of the BAR/BRI courses because I never took one. I took the MT exam based on having just come out of law school, and self-study, and the WA exam by self-study using a friend’s BAR/BRI outlines. I do think they (BAR/BRI and others) inflate the value of the classes because in both cases I was told that I would probably not pass the exam if I wasn’t taking a course. That really freaked me out for WA, since I was new to the jursidiction, hadn’t gone to school there, and was then five years out of school. But the exam wasn’t that bad at all (IMO) – relatively speaking, that is; it’s still as fun as yanking out your fingernails for 2.5 days.

22

I found Bar/Bri to have been very helpful for when I took the Illinois Bar Exam (and passed). I found the Bar Questions (especially the multistate) on average to be poorly drafted and the answers not be exactly correct in a distressing amount of the time. Too often it was picking the closest to correct answer. I didn’t bother with PMBR as I thought it was a bit of a scam and Bar/Bri had a solid plan.

Since then I have waived into the D.C. bar, but still keep my IL bar active as there is no CLE requirement and I worked hard to get it. Next up- the Virginia Bar (as soon as I can waive in- I ain’t taking the bar again!). :wink:

23

Res, try not to worry too much- I took the Georgia Bar in 1987 (Dang, I’m an old fart!), and I was SURE I failed it. I made the mistake of listening to everyone talking during breaks, and assuming that if someone got a different answer or spotted different issues than I did, I was the one who was wrong. The last two or three weeks before the results came out were actually more stressful than the weeks before the exam!

 Turns out I passed it.  And, back in '87, they would actually send you your overall score and how you scored on each essay question and each section of the Multi-state.  I made somewhere in the high 70s- I can't recall the exact score- but I do recall that there were some total jerks in my class who were putting their scores on their resumes!  Rumor has it that was a factor in their not giving you your score anymore.
24

Res chill. If the Multistate was so different from OMBR and BARBRI then everyone else will be in the same boat, too. You have the pre-bar-results jitters…I understand completely.

However, I assume you were exaggerrating about studying all summer for 12 hours a day…that’s like what those asshats at bar review would always claim to see who studied the most and (as a veteran of 2 bar exams) I am pretty certain it was mostly bullshit. If you studied anything close to that, you studied too much. Sorry for the sidetrakc, but this is one of my pet peeves…

Good luck, drink a beer, and if you aren’t working right now ry to enjoy yourself 'cause life is about to become awful (although YMMV depending on what kind of law you’re going into.)

Also, your first step to becoming a competant baby-lawyer is to realize you don’t know everything and realize that’s ok.

25

Good God, apparently I am drunk as the mistakes in that post are just frightening. I’ll just go back to my cage now…

26

Res…
I disagree with respect to studying too much. If you can study 24 hours a day, do it. The more second nature it becomes, the better it is for you. Not advice for you Res, you probably passed, but for anyone else, studying creates confidence, confidence creates success.
I did M – F @ 8 hours and Sat @ 4 hours for 9 weeks. Plus the last 6 weeks included 4 nights at 3 hours ea. for review. (I’ll never forget the instructor, in his southern accent, repeating over and over “In urinalyses of this matter” … it still brings chuckles after all these years.)
I took the Cal Bar, June 77… which only 46% passed.
I remember leaving the MBE thinking I knew the answer to only one question, on judicial notice, the rest, I had to guess between two somewhat correct answers. Very discouraging.

We took the exam in June and waited until December for the results. Those 5 and 1/2 months were long, never ending, frustrating and did I say long? I know what you are going through. The day the results were announced, you could call the bar and receive your results via the phone. I did at precisely the minute they opened, and of course the line was busy, & busy, & busy, and finally… an answered, “Your name please,…” [wait, wait, wait] ”you were successful, thank you for calling” I don’t remember much after that call.
Good luck and think positive.

27

BlondeJ, gets a spell checker like me got then you don’t spell wrongly no more.:stuck_out_tongue:

28

Hee, I feel like Ralph: Me fail English, that’s unpossible :slight_smile:

But seriously, 2 months*12 hours is like 720 hours of studying. That’s at least 3 1/2 months of billing like crazy.

To clarify, 2 bars in 2 states…both passed 1st try.

29

12 hours a day? I attended Bar/bri in the morning, worked at a firm in the afternoon, and did flash cards on the train and most (well, many) evenings. I think I took about a week and a half off right at the end to study, too (it was supposed to be two weeks, but I had to attend some depositions). Admittedly Massachusetts isn’t a tough jurisdiction, but are you trying to kill yourself before you even start practicing?

30

To follow up on studytime:

I think it differs from person to person. One of my classmates only put in 3-4 hours a day, although he’s a father of 3 and simply didn’t have the time to do what I did. Also, he took Michigan, which might have been quite different from my bar.

My M-F schedule went something like this:
9 AM-noon (varied): BAR/BRI class
Noon-1: lunch
1-4: Tried to get in 50 PMBR multistate questions per day, including review answers.
4-8: Worked on BAR/BRI homework.
8-9: Late dinner.
9-1: Worked on BAR/BRI essays.

I experimented with my scheduled a lot, but the one consistent thing was my 50 questions a day. (These did become second nature after awhile, and I will say that a number of PMBR’s fact patters–maybe 10-20 of them–were on this year’s MBE, and I’m sure that I nailed them.) I’ll add the following:

-I deviated from BAR/BRI’s calendar pretty quickly. BAR/BRI gives you set homework for everyday, and it’s assumed that you’ll follow it. BAR/BRI does NOT work in time to do your PMBR work, which I tried to stick to anyway as the multistate can have a drastic effect on your PA scores.
-BAR/BRI’s Multistate problems were terrible. The fact patterns tended to be either too easy, too hard, or too long. Additionally, they were too unlike PMBR’s patterns, which, IMO, appear to be more similar to what the NCBX actually asks.
-BAR/BRI does have a book of “released questions” which WERE helpful, but only because they came from the NCBX themselves.
-It’s best to read through unfamiliar subjects slowly. I’ve never taken Commercial Paper, and I had trouble with Secured Transactions in law school, so I should have taken them more slowly rather than cram-panicked in the end. (Ironically, neither was on the PA bar itself.)
-I took an actual old MBE test. This was helpful, although the most recent test you can order from them is from 1998 (which, again, was drastically different from the crap I took this year).
-I tried to maintain hobbies. I collect Star Wars figures and comic books, and tried to keep up my interest in them up until the last 2 weeks before the test. I also worked in time to watch The Simpsons at least a few times a week.
-Possibly the most harrowing thing was that my finance was living with me for the summer. It was difficult for her to be around me, yet not be able to do anything with me because my studies were (in theory) more important than snuggle time. We made it a point of reserving Saturday evenings and Sundays for ourselves, plus we’d always have meals together. She understood, though, and was a big help. (And she’s taking the bar in 2 years, so we get to go through this all over again.)

This was probably the most painful summer of my life, though. I have been seriously relaxing for the last week so far, and I have 2 more weeks of vacation ahead of me.

Of course, I get to panic again in October when the bar results will be announced. Rest assured, you’ll hear about it, either in MPSIMS or the Pit depending on how it turns out.

Hmmmm…maybe I’ll start an “Ask the Guy Who Just Took the Bar Exam” thread in MPSIMS if there’s any interest. Any takers?

31

You folks south of the border might hate me for this, but here goes: my bar admissions course and bar exams were enjoyable.

A group of us did not much like the idea of travelling a thousand miles to take the program and write the exams, so we lined up members of the local bar and judiciary to hold seminars on the various subjects. Since we were all working full time, we held the sessions after hours at various firms.

It was a terrific introduction to the local bar. We learned not only the subject matter required to pass the bar exams, but also a great deal about what to expect in practice, and who to turn to for advice. We went in hoping for a bit of help in getting past the exams, but we came out with long term mentors.

32

Res, you need a vacation! Personally, I’m going to try to avoid thinking about it until November when the results come out.

33

Heck, res. Just wait till you get your license, start practicing, and realize that the 3 years you spent in law school had next to nothing to do with what you are actually doing as a lawyer!

Law school and admissions are - IMO - largely a racket or a joke, depending on my mood. Any reasonably intelligent person could be trained to practice law in an undergraduate course of study. Works for accountants. Heck, they at least need to know how to do basic math!

So 17 years ago I passed a section on commercial paper. Never took a law school course on it, and never used it in my job. Attended most of my barbri sessions while working that summer, but read few if any of the materials, and did not a single practice test.

Bar tests are little more than an archaic fraternal hazing ritual. Thank you sir, may I have another? Welcome to the club!

Oh yeah - your OP was sufficiently stupid and self-centered that you impress me as well qualified to be a mamber of the bar.

34

It doesn’t work for CPAs anymore.

In my state (and most states now) you need 150 hours of education to sit for the CPA exam. That is equivalent to a master’s degree and the business schools in most colleges now offer graduate degrees in accounting.

The exam itself is a two day four part test with about 220 multiple choice questions and 7 essays.

Pass rates for the CPA exam very from about 15% - 30% depending on the year.

35

My own experience is a little stale - I took the bar (NY) nine years ago - but honestly, this is jitters. FWIW I only knew two people who failed New York’s exam the year I took it, and neither of them had the proper time to study: one was working full time and his employer kept “forgetting” to give him time off, and the other went through a major family crisis.

Bear in mind that the pass rate that’s usually quoted is the overall pass rate. Here in New York, the overall pass rate is (or was in 1994) about 70-75%. But the first-time pass rate was about 85% - and New York’s considered one of the more difficult states.

Also FWIW: I didn’t take PMBR, just BarBri. Felt like shit after the exam…but ended up being shocked by my score.