Jim’s wife says so - Mary is apparently open about it in front of her compatriot friends. There’s no reason for Jim’s wife to make it up. And, as I say, I know one when I see one - I had a slight suspicion when I first saw Mary, and Jim’s wife basically confirmed it.
Lady boys (ka toey in Thaland, bak la in the Philippines) are a part of the scenery in Asia. They’re “men trapped in a woman’s body”, but unlike transexuals in the west, they dress and act in an exaggeratedly feminine way. They can be very convincing, but (to me) the jaw/cheekbone structure sometimes doesn’t seem right. And physically, they’re just much bigger (height, hands, etc) than 99% of Asian women.
I did a Google search - mostly porn, but I found this - so you, too, can spot one.
As it happens I was in a club last night where 90% of the girls were wearing t-shirts/jeans - just normal girls. The smaller number wearing more elegant stuff - office attire/skirts/etc - were hookers from China. Then there were a few lady boys - wearing elaborate flowing gowns, loads of jewelry, make-up, etc, like Miss World or something.
Should Mary tell Bob? Of course, but that’s unthinkable. Lady boys get a huge kick out of fooling straight guys.
You did the right thing by telling him. It’s better than having him find out in a during an “intimate” moment. He could make a big scene, or have a really ugly reaction. I think an anonymous email is much better than that!
Since Mary hasn’t had the surgery yet, all of her isn’t (shall we say) “as advertised”. The decent thing to do is to let him know about her, since apparently she has no intention of doing so.
Relationships are a two-way street. Honesty is a good thing, on both sides. If Mary hasn’t been honest, shame on her. Sorry, I don’t think there’s any excuse for her behavior (if indeed she hasn’t told him).
Hemlock you were perfectly wrong to do what you did, and should be ashamed. Miss Manners would not approve of you sticking your nose in where it doesn’t belong - mind your own frelling business next time.
Hemlock, just so you know, it was Otto who asked what business is it of yours. On the contrary, I think that it is your business. These people are your friends. It’s just the method of doing it that I’m questioning.
And for those who think that one “always” knows who’s a ladyboy… I can vouch for that being untrue. I spent a charming evening in Chiang Mai flirting with a very attractive lady (it was all above board: I was with my SO, who thought it was cute), but it was only on very close scrutiny of photographs I had taken that we realised the truth.
Is there ever a time when it is appropriate to “butt your nose” in someone else’s business?
What if a guy is unknowingly dating a woman who is married, and she is passing herself off as single? What if her husband is insanely jealous? Do you tell the guy she’s married, or do you “mind your own business” and allow him to continue to be deceived?
What if a guy is unknowingly dating a woman who has a sexually transmitted disease, and she has no intention of telling him about it (but possibly have unprotected sex with him anyway)?
I know that none of these other scenarios are the same as what Hemlock described, but my question is, is there a time when one should confide to a friend that they are being deceived? Because that seems to be exactly what this is about, IMO.
Also, I can almost think of a reason why it would be safer for Mary to have this guy know. Some straight guys can become irate or inflamed (with homophobic rage, whatever) when they find they have been “duped” by a transgendered person. One fellow I know said he’d beat up (or worse) anyone who deceived him in such a way. I’m sure quite a few men would feel this way. Being told before things go further might be less of a shock for such guys. (Not that I have any idea if Hemlock’s friend would resort to an ugly scene, or even violence, mind…)
I think this is a very good point, and when I first read this thread, I figured I would just tell the guy face-to-face. The part that sticks out to me though, is that everyone is laughing at him. To tell the truth, I think it says more about the people laughing at him, than the person being fooled. He might get embarrassed, but I think he’d live.
If I try to look at it from Mary’s POV, I think she has a right not to tell at this point. When I was still dating, I didn’t tell every guy I was seeing that I have had an abortion. If I felt the relationship was going to go somewhere, or if I had even had the time put into the relationship to decide that, I’m sure I would have told him. I don’t see that Mary needs to tell him straight off the bat. Is he telling Mary, “Look, I am mainly interested in sex, want to come home with me, though I doubt I’ll want to marry you?” I think Mary needs to tell him, but since it is between her and this potential b/f, I think she should be given the chance to handle it as she sees fit.
With the guy now being told, and having the knowledge that people are making fun of him… I think it really puts a damper on him having an open mind or treating Mary in a respectful fashion. Maybe this is the reason she chose to wait longer than you’d like her to. She’s probably had to deal with this situation before.
I can’t say what I would do in the situation, but I think Mary should have had the right to tell him when she felt it was appropriate. If she just waited for him to find out in an uncomfortable manner, I guess it’s just a hard lesson learned for both of them. I still think it was their lesson to learn though.
Using yosemitebabe’s quote, I can see this being a legitimate reason for telling him. I have a harder time seeing it when people are laughing at him. I guess if the guy was likely to become violent, I would have confronted Mary with that probability and kept the ball in her court. Forearmed and all that…
It would certainly be safer for Mary to tell Bob prior to their becoming sexually intimate, but I don’t see how it’s safer for someone else to tell Bob for her. If someone else tells, Mary has been “caught” and will never have the chance to choose to be open rather than being forced to confess. This puts her in a very bad position.
It is entirely possible that Mary never planned to become sexually intimate with Bob – she has refused him this far, and apparently hasn’t even ever been on a real date with him. If she never meant to pursue things further, why does Bob need to know all the private details of her life? It’s none of his business. If she did plan on being sexually intimate with Bob, she probably also planned to tell him – at the time and in the manner which she thought best – that her genitals might not be what he expected.
Either way, it was no one else’s place to say anything about it.
I’ve read this thread only once, and I’m unable to figure out why anyone thinks Hemlockshouldn’t have told Bob what is going on. Hemlock had information that would seriously affect Bob’s feelings for this person. Other people were laughing at Bob behind his back because he didn’t have this information. What kind of friend would Hemlock have been if he/she (sorry Hem, can’t remember which you are; kind of ironic, under the circumstances) didn’t lift a finger to save another friend from potential embarassment?
Yes, “Mary” should’ve told Bob, but HE didn’t. So somebody had to do it. Mary’s right to define himself does not include the right to embarass another person who may not feel the same way.
Sorry, but I think there is a HUGE difference between having once had an abortion and being a man. Besides, what if you had known right off the bat (because this person was a Southern Baptist, or hwatever) that they wouldn’t have approved of what you did? I think it’s obvious that the majority of Anglo-Saxon men anywhere in the world would not want to kiss or take home an anatomical male if they started out thinking he was female. And I think “Mary” knows this, which is why she’s honest about it with her friends but not, apparently, Bob. It’s called “lying by omission.”
Basically, I agree with Wikkit and yosemitebabe. And I’m stunned at how many people have said “it’s none of your business.” God protect me from friends who would care so little about my emotional well-being or reputation.
Neither you, nor I, nor Hemlock, knows for sure that Mary has not already told Bob. We also do not know that, even if she hasn’t told him already, she was not planning on telling him soon. We don’t know that she was not keeping it to herself merely because she thought of Bob as nothing more than a friendly acquaintance and never dreamed of becoming sexually intimate with him. We don’t know for sure that Mary has not actually had sex-reassignment surgery. We don’t even know for sure that Mary was not born with a woman’s body. The reason we do not know these things is because it is not our business.
I think Hemlock knows that what he did was wrong. If he truly had nothing to be ashamed of he would have told Bob to his face, not sent him a cowardly anonymous e-mail.
The question asked above has apparently been answered, or at least irrevocable action has been taken,
This topic has spawned a Pit thread already; any vituperative comments should rightly be placed there, and
The larger question, “When is it proper to intrude on another’s personal life?” is not apprpriate for MPSIMS. Should you wish to continue that line of inquiry, I suggest IMHO, or GD, would be a more correct place.