I apologize. I was carried away in the heat of the moment.
My own nieces and nephews seem to have missed out on that part of their upbringing. It’s very typical for them to take some mashed potatoes (for example) from a bowl on the table, and then just start eating. They don’t even pass the serving bowl. They just dig in (holding the fork like a shovel) and expect everybody else to be passing them the rest of the food in turn.
As I said in my original post, it may be ridiculous “to some,” but it actually makes me uncomfortable to be at a table with others who don’t demonstrate at least some level of courtesy and etiquette. I keep expecting the “Wrath of Mom” to descend from out of the blue.
And I feel a bit sorry for my nephew, who is earning an engineering degree from a well-respected college. He will eventually have to eat with other professionals or business associates/clients and, in spite of being a brilliant guy, his parents made no effort to teach him any table manners at all. It’s quite an eye-opener to see him dine.
Some universities have programs or courses to help students learn social etiquette, including how to eat properly (which fork to use, how to eat messy foods like spaghetti, etc. It was suggested to us that you might be interviewed over dinner, and you’d be judged on your manners.
I’ll back you up. Firstly, if they are a couple, you can’t invite just one and say the other is not welcome. That is rude. Part of being a good host is putting up with rude guests, at times. And if you make Nephew choose between you and GF, you might lose. You need to find a way to get the message across to her, but not by scolding her in public. Talk to her separately, and ask her to turn her cell phone off while at your house for dinner, unless there is an actual emergency she is attending to. Tell her something like: We love having you and Nephew over, but please, let’s make it real “family time” by turning off the cell phone. You can turn it right back on when you leave. If you have to, add: * I know I’m a bit of an old fogey about this, but please humor me just a couple times a month.*
Keep in mind that kids these days grew up with cell phones, and they probably get a bit anxious when they can’t access them. FOMO.
Using a cell phone at the table is a huge pet peeve of mine. My husband and I recently went out to dinner with another couple of our acquaintance. The man was on his phone from the moment we sat down at the table to the moment we left. Obviously, we didn’t say a word about it (we were at a restaurant, not our house) but I was appalled. I don’t expect we will be going out with this couple again.
In the OP’s situation, I think the host is well within his/her rights to institute a “no phones at the table” rule. It doesn’t need to be put forth aggressively or in a confrontational manner. Just a matter-of-fact statement with the undertone (or the explicit expression) of “we love your company, let’s interact.”
Somebody mentioned the use of phones to look up facts during a discussion. Unless there is some deep disagreement that a quick dip into Google (or a handy reference book) is needed to resolve, I find it completely unnecessary. The ebb and flow of conversation often involves the “Oh, what was that guy’s name” sort of thing, with suggestions and conjectures all part of the process. My students constantly want to look things up, but I find it impedes discussion to a great degree. If I ask them to recall when the Bolshevik revolution was, I don’t want some smart aleck with a smartphone finding the answer without any context. Instead, I want them to think about the state of the world in the second decade of the 20th century, the impact of World War I on Europe in general and Russia in particular, etc. That goes double for my foreign language classes. Students can look up conjugations and declensions until the cows come home, but at some point they need to absorb and internalize the material or they will never be able to speak or understand the language. Of course, these are situations with specifically pedagogical implications, but as above I tend to roll my eyes inwardly when someone seems unable to carry on a casual conversation without whipping out a cell phone.
I would call the nephew and start by telling him how much you actually adore the girlfriend, and enjoy having them in for dinner, because that’s true, right?
Then I’d very delicately suggest perhaps he leave her at home, as you’re certain she isn’t enjoying the visits, is bored and seems uninterested. (This is also true!) Tell him you’ve tried very hard to think of ways it could be more fun for her, but haven’t come up with anything.
After a slight dramatic pause, and in a soft voice, confess you’ve also tried very hard not to show how very hurt you feel to see her on her phone while you’re entertaining her, doubly so at the table. (Also true!)
Be upbeat and point out it would be less boring for her and less hurtful for you if maybe she’d just prefer to be excused. That way she can have fun on her phone and you can have an event you don’t have hurt feeling after, everybody wins! Tell him you just want him to think about it, is all.
Then leave it be and see how the next event shakes out. Either she’ll come and abide your wishes, or he’ll leave her behind, or she’ll do it anyway. If it’s the latter, don’t invite either again.
I can’t believe how many people are suggesting you get between your nephew and his girlfriend. That way lies madness.
Bingo!
This isn’t some casual acquaintance bringing someone I’ve never met and don’t give a fig about – this is family, a favorite nephew who visits this nutty old uncle more often than any other family member does, and he’s a very good next door neighbor.
They are both aware of how I feel about the situation and my nephew is also perturbed at her constant phone fiddling. I’ll tell the Queen story (because I think it’s a great story) and will then let go of this one.
I think it’s a shame the phone abusers don’t realize how many doors they are closing to themselves; it’s a growing problem and a lot of people are becoming fed up with it.
Well maybe they should.
The above mentioned relative of mine who used to always have her phone out, stopped doing it when she got a new BF (her later husband) who - well it was a combination of her wanting to please him and him putting his foot down and telling her to hang up.
Ok, I know that all sounds like he was being a sexist, arrogant, controlling brute but the woman admitted she had little self control and that it truly WAS a bad behavior she needed to stop. It’s not the first time an adult needs a “swat on the ass” so to speak from their spouse.
If this relationship is going to go anywhere she should learn what a bad behavior is. Not much difference if she insisted on smoking. If she cant do it with a phone, how will she do when it comes to finances or kids?
I (apparently) don’t know much about formal table manners, but my mother did teach me that good manners includes the rule that when you apologize, you apologize to the person you insulted, not the person who called you on it. It rings hollow otherwise, in the “i’m sorry … that I got caught” kind of way.
But hey, as this thread shows, different people and cultures can have different opinions on what constitutes good manners.
“I’m sorry if I offended you…” (I mean, I stand by words that may have offended you, Im just sorry you were offended).
I’ve worked very hard to stay out of this discussion of guest etiquette, but this last response had me imagining a scene where I walk in, choke on myself, and still politely say, “Wow! :eek: I…uh…Gosh, I LOVE your décor!” ![]()
My wife and I were recently invited to the neighbor’s place for an informal barbecue on the back porch. I, too, was brought up to believe it was 10000% unacceptable to bring any distractions to the meal table. No books, no newspapers, no magazines, turn off the TV and Radio and pay attention to your meal and fellow diners.%
So it was that I was thoroughly appalled when my own cell-phone started ringing in the middle of dinner while my wife was decorating her hamburger and the host was telling us how long ago he had planted each of the fruit trees. I glanced at the caller-ID and had to politely step away from the table to answer the call, then excused myself to dash home and handle an IT emergency*. When I returned ten minutes later I started to apologize but the neighbors told me my wife had already explained that part of my role in IT has me on-call all the time and, since the neighbor worked in the insurance industry as well, they were both very graciously patient about the importance and ramifications of the computer glitch.
However, I’m fully cognizant of my claim to be a special case. In fact, if the company wasn’t paying for the tether and requiring that I have it on, and on me, at all times I wouldn’t bother lugging a cell-phone around at all. And I still try to adhere to the No Distractions protocol even though it was a somewhat painful aspect of my childhood.
–G!
%Unfortunately, this made a lot of uncomfortably silent dinners during my childhood because we siblings just hated each other and another family rule was, “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything.”
*involving a couple million dollars of insurance premium deposits; not a difficult technical problem but someone thought it was rather important not to miss those bank transfers)
OK, I was wrong. I can believe how many people are suggesting the OP get between his nephew and the girlfriend and try to control their relationship. I don’t know what I was thinking, and how I forgot where I was. ::smack::
Keep your personal beefs out of this thread, please. Use the Pit if you must.
Oh LA DI DA, look at Mr. Fancy ‘I don’t staple Fritos bags on MY dining room walls’! ![]()
If it were me, I would invite her 1 more time. If she pulled out her phone at the table, I would say something like: “Please don’t use your phone during dinner.” Or maybe: “I put quite a bit of effort preparing this meal, and would appreciate if you wait to use your phone until we are done eating.” If she uses her phone at dinner, don’t invite her again, and let the nephew know why.
You see, I dont see anything wrong with telling a person they are doing something wrong especially if its in your home.
Is it any different than a “guest” coming to your home and insisting on smoking, drinking, using foul language, bringing up politics, or just being rude?
And just because a relative brings a person into your family, it doesnt mean the rest of you have to accept their behavior.
It’s a shock to my system, but I agree with you. Your house is yours and you have the ultimate right to dictate what is considered acceptable and what isn’t in your house. Other people have the option of complying with your rules, or not coming to your house.
And I say this as a person who, when his mother demanded that he stay in the room and quietly join in with group prayers, didn’t go to her house for six months (until that was revoked) despite it having been the norm to visit weekly.
Also, I don’t consider that to be “getting between the nephew and the spouse” - I consider that giving both the nephew and the spouse the same set of rules and holding them both to them. Though, as should be clear from the above example, there’s a very real risk of getting between yourself and the nephew.
I stand corrected. In my defense, I can only offer that the person I directly insult left the thread.
I’m not sure it’s especially useful to think about it terms of “wrong” or “right.” You certainly have the right to establish and enforce whatever rules you wish, and to stop inviting those who don’t abide by the rules. Nothing “wrong” with it at all. But you always have to weigh how much you care about your rules against how much you care about the people breaking them. In this case, the OP wouldn’t be doing anything wrong by confronting his nephew’s girlfriend, or by disinviting her if she won’t change her behavior. But he might or might not be doing something that will risk his relationship with his nephew. You can say that it shouldn’t risk the relationship, you can say that the nephew should just get over it… but if the OP ends up alienating a person that matters to him, then “being right” isn’t much comfort.
I don’t think it’s a good idea to go through life fighting every battle; some battles will hurt you worse if you win them than if you lose them.
Unpopular Postscript:
I think the Boomers-Gen X axis (of which I am a part) is fighting a hilariously misguided battle against the cell phone thing. The battle is lost. In ten years the idea of “always on his/her phone” as a social faux pas will seem hilariously quaint. This is the new normal, folks, and I don’t much like it but it’s happening.