Fine. It’s not bullshit. It’s factually incorrect. Is that better?
Only in the same way that saying “One can never lift a 30 pound object” is factually incorrect.
If you really want to feel hurt caused by others’ words, you certainly can be. Don’t let me get in your way.
I have to admit, I kinda don’t like the idea that one should have to change their posting style to avoid hurt feelings. I don’t like the idea of equating internet feelings with real feelings.
Exactly one time since I have been messageboarding, did someone hurt my real life feelings, and I had to realize that hey, I was a big enough girl to run with the big boys on line, so I can’t get upset when I get nipped. Learned that lesson quick, and moved on.
I feel like messageboarding is different than real life. We come here specifically to share ideas, which is different than real life where we are expected to…you know…have to live and work with eachother. Best not to talk about religion and politics with my co-workers everyday.
Here, folks come to specifically share ideas, and by extension, to disagree. Some folks will be soft and respectful, some folks will be dogmatic and curt. We need it all to have a fun and exciting board. I actually have always been a huge fan of Dio. And if he is wrong about something, folks can take him to the mat, or pit him or whatever, but I don’t think it is fair to try to guilt him into changing his style so that internet feelings aren’t hurt.
All of the above, of course, is just my opinion.
“Hurtful”? Really??
A person can only hurt you if you give them the power to do so.
For crying out loud, grow up and take responsibility for your own emotions!
There is no reason, whatsoever, that anyone should give the power to hurt them to some random asshat on an anonymous forum board. This is not to say that Dio is an asshat. I just got here, I don’t know him at all and so far I’ve agreed with a lot of his opinions. His tone and manner seem to be a bit brusque and cerebral rather than all warm and fuzzy, but I’m not looking for BFFs here and to each his own anyway.
From what I’ve seen so far, Dio seems to be pretty secure in his own skin. He knows what he thinks/feels/believes and he states his opinions. AND he doesn’t much care whether the strangers here agree or not. I haven’t seen where he tries to convince anyone that they should adopt his opinions as their own. Do his posts have a whiff of arrogance to them. Yes, some of them do. So what?
I also haven’t seen where he name-calls or rolls around in the mud with other posters, although I have seen some other posters extend him an invitation to do so.
Just as a point for future reference… I state my opinions and move on. If you agree, lovely. If you disagree? Interesting! Tell me what it is you take issue with. Maybe you will put forth some aspect I haven’t considered yet. But don’t expect me to proselytize in an effort to change your mind. I won’t. I will tell you what I think but I won’t tell you what you “should” think.
I feel I have been unclear, and have no one to blame but myself.
I do not want Dio to change his posting style to avoid hurt feelings. I want him to change his posting style to not be a threadshitting douchebag. (And before someone asks, yes, I am being paid $1 for each time I say “threadshitting” or “douchebag” and no, you may not share the profits.)
Additionally and separately, I think it’s douchey to tell someone “nuh-uh, no it’s not” when they think you have said something hurtful. “I don’t care” or “sucks to be you” maybe. But the hurtee is the one who decides if hurt has been inflicted. I realize this is a nitpicky semantic point, but apart from porn, what else is the Internet for?
I don’t think the point was nitpicky at all. Made perfect sense to me.
This post and your previous post seem in opposition to one another. Can you elaborate?
Are you talking to me?
For some reason I envisioned you saying that while looking into a mirror with your head canted sideways and your eyebrows arched to the maximum.
Yes. I read your first post as suggesting that people should be responsible for the degree to which they feel hurt by posts on a message board and should not guilt others into changing their posting style based on those hurt feelings.
I read MsWhatsit as saying that the hurtee gets to determine if someone has inflicted hurt on them. You appeared to endorse this. I realize that the two positions may exist side by side, but at the same time, the suggestion that the hurtee gets to determine if hurt has been inflicted seems to carry a lot of blame and to attribute a lot of cause to the outside poster, rather than to accept the responsibility of the individual to moderate their own emotional reaction to message board posts. So, it would seem a tight balancing act to both make your original post (which I thought was an eloquent statement on the matter) and to endorse MsWhatsits. I was wondering if you would elaborate on this possible conflict.
I don’t see it as a conflict at all.
I understand that there is a difference between the two responses she pointed out.
If someone says you hurt their feelings, and you say:
“No I didn’t” Well that is just dumb. You don’t know how their emotions work. Maybe their feelings are hurt, even if for a stupid ass reason.
If someone responds:
"Well, I hurt your feelings, sucks to be you’ well that at least makes sense. The person isn’t pretending to be able to read another’s emotions at all.
So her point was very clear. My mom’s feelings get hurt if the mailman doesn’t sit and talk with her on the porch for a minute when he is dropping the mail. That is dumb, and the mailman has no responsibility to soothe her feelings, but it is retarded for him to tell her “your feelings aren’t hurt.”
ETA: You folks lose the nuance in posting sometimes. Her point should have been clear to you as it was to me. Every disagreement isn’t black and white. You can disagree with her overall point and still see her other points.
(I figured you were talking to me. I didn’t see anyone else around)
I don’t know, Dio seemed to be hurt by the comment about his daughter.
Actually, I’m seeing more nuance than you are. Specifically, I agree that only the individual can determine if they feel hurt and to what degree. I also agree that it is silly and non-productive for someone else to deny whether and how much another person feels hurt.
However, if your mother accused the mailman of “inflicting” pain on her because he didn’t stop to chat, I can see him perhaps disagreeing with whether he inflicted pain on her. He may not choose to take up the quarrel with her, but saying that each person needs to own their own hurt feelings versus saying that each person gets to determine if someone else inflicted hurt upon them are not consistent positions.
So take that and stick it in your holier-than-thou nuance detection pipe and smoke it!
ETA: This is why we encourage “I statements” while discussing conflict in therapy sessions and out of them. They may feel unnatural and silly, but they encourage personal ownership and reduce the likelihood of putting people on the defensive. “I felt hurt when you didn’t stop and chat” is qualitatively different from “You hurt my feelings by not stopping and chatting with me.”
Good point. You have seen my level of nuance and raised me. Good show.
ETA: Now shut the fuck up about it.
You’re mean and you’re not my best friend anymore.
Same. If only Rand would take his own advice. (See the pro bono thread for evidence.)
Fuck that, dude.
That’s me and my fucking wife you’re talking about in that old thread. I’m a scumbag, and my wife is emotionally fucked up, according to you. You take runs at people all the fucking time, you just don’t have the balls to call anyone out in specific.
It’d be like me saying “All middle-aged fathers with pre-teen/young teen daughters who post on message boards OBVIOUSLY want to have pedophilic sex with all their daughters.” and then pretending I wasn’t being personally insulting to you or going after your family. When you know goddamn well there are people on the Dope who are living the lives you so disdainfully find wanting, you’re being personal.
Yeah, if and only if you’re idiosyncratically using “hurt” to mean “actual physical damage”. You hurt people all the goddamn time with your little proclamations.
I didn’t say a word about you or your wife. That’s your own inference.
Hey, now. You have to be a tax lawyer to weasel like that.
Are you sure he’s middle aged? I think he may be youngish.
Once upon a time I felt this way. But the reality is that online communication is rapidly becoming the prevalent mode of social interaction in 21st century America. Look at Facebook. Hundreds of millions of people, using their real names, sharing their real lives. Twitter goes straight to the phone in your pocket. It’s intimately personal in a way the old BBS wasn’t. If I had heard about someone who committed suicide over a comment on a 33.6 baud BBS, that would have made me think “wow, this person spent way too much time online and neglected their real life. What happened that they felt they had no outlet or refuge from the hateful things said at 33.6kbps? Where were their family and friends?” But today those things ARE people’s real lives. Friendships are created, grown, and maintained through online interaction.
I have moved away from the view that what is said online is just pixels on a screen. I just don’t think it reflects reality anymore. The reality is that statements online are the modern equivalent of a phone call. If you wouldn’t say it in real life, don’t say it online. That’s what I’m trying to hold myself to, and what I’m teaching my kids.
Enjoy,
Steven