Does anyone know how many goals by Korean opponents have been disallowed in the World Cup? And how many disallowed goals overall in the tourney? I may be wrong but it seems like Korea has benefitted more than anyone else.
And I am not anti-Korea, it just seems strange to see so many goals called off against one team.
First of all, “goals” are not “disallowed”. Unlike in other sports, in soccer the ruling of an infraction comes without worrying about the result of the infraction or the play. The only time the “result” matters is if the ruling would disadvantage the team fouled, in which case play is allowed to continue usually.
When a linesman (screw the IFAB’s silly attempt to rename them “assisstants”; they still run up and down the line) sees the offside infraction, he raises his flag at once, without worrying about whether anything thereafter happens. Once the referee sees or hears the flag go up, he stops play immediately (rarely at this level does the referee attempt to over-rule his “assisstant”). The fact that several questionable offside violation calls have occurred in games in which Korea played where continuation of play after the raising of the flag resulted in the ball going into the net can mostly be attributed to two things:
The Italians and Spanish are good at capitalising on scoring chances;
The Koreans were attempting to slow them down by aggressive defensive tactics designed to put the attackers offside; and
In each game, one of the linesmen hadn’t quite yet understood the fact that the rewriting of the rule 10 years ago was intended to allow close plays to continue. This is especially true of today’s game where the assisstant on the far sideline made the miserable call that the ball was out of play over the goal line, when, in fact not only was it clearly NOT out of play, but the linesman had failed to get himself into position to adjudge the ball’s location relative to the line in a timely fashion.
I’d worry that this was the result of crowd pressure or some such thing, except that I’ve seen some other examples of this old school officiating in other games not involving the home teams. It seems that the world is still filled with too many referees who think the game should be officiated as it was in the 70’s and 80’s, when the advantage was commonly given to the defending team.
“Jose Antonio Camacho was scathing of Egyptian referee Gamal Ghandour and linesmen Ali Tomusange and Michael Ragoonath for disallowing three goals Saturday before his Spanish lineup was ousted by South Korea on penalties.”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/world/2002/world_cup/ne
I guess someone should clue in the writer of the above article. And the Italian player quoted below also.
"Defender Fabio Cannavaro also had an upbeat assessment of the team’s overall performance. “I think in general, looking at all the games and all the chances we created and goals we had disallowed, then you could say we had the best attack in the World Cup,” said Cannavaro. "
http://www.fifa.com/reuters/02-06/2002-06-19_40435_E.html
Then BBC has it wrong too:
"The Italian camp were left cursing match officials for two controversial disallowed goals in their country’s surprise 2- 1 defeat to Croatia in Ibaraki. The Italians were unhappy at having the goals disallowed by the Tring referee Graham Poll on the advice of Danish linesman Jens Larsen.
Italian striker Christian Vieri had a goal disallowed for offside before heading his side into the lead after 55 minutes. However, unfancied Croatia scored twice in four minutes to turn the game on its head to leave Italy fuming, particularly when the officials again intervened to deny them a late equaliser."
Well you might not consider the result of the play immediately after the decision important, but most fans do!
So you mean they were playing the off side trap. Were there any teams in the world cup who didn’t play the off side trap?
If a player nonchalantly puts the ball in the net after being caught miles off side with the keeper well aware of the linesman’s decision, then you’re right, it’s not considered a disallowed goal. But if, in the normal course of play, the ball ends up in the net and the ref then calls it back for a previous infringement, then, whether the decision is right or wrong, it is a disallowed goal. And Korea have been on the right end of a worrying number of these decisions.
A “Goal” by definition is a ball that crosses the goal line under the crossbar and between the uprights while not out of play.
A ball is out of play when a foul has occurred, unless the referee allows play to continue for the “advantage” clause.
The fact that the players continue to “play” makes no difference.
Saying that the “goal” has been “disallowed” is a convenient way to discuss these situations, but it is an important difference. In American football, the “goal” (touchdown) would actually be “disallowed” because in American football play continues even after the “foul” has occurred, and the officials decide what to do about “fouls” after the play is done. This is significantly different from the situation in soccer, where the play is stopped at the moment of the foul.
As a soccer official, I assure you, this is an important consideration. It forces snap judgment of the occurrence of a foul, because you must make the determination quickly, to try and avoid precisely the occurrence under discussion, namely, the continuation of play with significant consequence, be it further fouls, ungentlemanly conduct inspired by the original call, or the appearance of a goal. But make no mistake: the officials aren’t “disallowing” anything; they have determined that an offense has occurred before the putative “goal” has happened.
Was this year’s world cup sponsored by the WWE?
Dude,
You can get caught in semantics and credential all you’d like, but “disallowed goals” (‘anulados’ in Spanish) have been a part of the lingo of the sport since its inception.
The source of controversy is whether the call made during the play was legit or not. IOW, whether the goal should have stood.
Sure, as you mention, sometimes you’ll have a player tuck it into net well after an off-side call was made, but what I believe is being discussed here are goals scored during the run of play whose legitimacy only comes into question after the fact. No one, and I repeat, no one, has stopped playing and only become aware of the call afterwards.
A cross into the box for a header is a prime example. I.e. Spain’s first legitimate goal that was disallowed yesterday.
Trust you don’t disallow many of those yourself. :mad:
From FIFA itself:
**Law 10 - Method of Scoring **
Play is restarted with a dropped ball.*
As long as play has not restarted, the goal is disallowed, the guilty player is sent off and the match continues with a free kick.*
The goal is disallowed, the goalkeeper is sent off for violent conduct and a penalty kick is awarded to the opposing team.
I recall somewhat vividly seeing the goalkeeper stop and look at the ref when whistle was blown, instead of lunge for it like he normally would have. I think that’s the point DSYoungEsq is trying to make (apologies if that’s not what you meant). Because the play stops the moment whistle is blown, the defenders stop playing, and so should the offensive, but Spain just went on to kick the ball into the net to create all this goddamn controversy.
non-native writes:
Well, hot darn! Imagine that! Spain actually trying to score and win the darn fix…ermm…match!
Why we blankety, blank, blank, European bastards, spoiling the host’s party! :rolleyes:
Stick to baseball pal…'cause, here you haven’t got a clue.
I think this time you need a clue RedFury: I saw the game and IMO Spain was more capable but Korea did show an impressive defense. Korea’s run to the semis is not unprecedented. Chile, in 1962, hosted the world cup and managed to reach 3rd place! To make you feel better, remember that Chile never reached that level again.
And when I saw that daily telegraph OPINION, I noticed that sour grapes are the norm there. And I did notice what non-native mentioned, and I will add this: the ref made a mistake regarding a ball that was not out. NOT FOR DISALLOWING A SCORE. The score came after the ball was declared dead.
If Spain wants to cry conspiracy, they will have to acknowledge that the ref knew that the pass was going to be a score.
RedFury, behave. We have a forum for rants, and we have a forum for pleasant chit-chat. This one.
Curse at the refs (if you keep it nice), but don’t attack fellow posters.
Having said that, I can see what RedFury is saying. The first goal Spain scored was well in the net before the ref blew the whistle. Apparently, a shirt was held by a Spanish striker - I couldn’t tell even from 12 different camera angles. Clear goal, if you ask me, but anyway: I’d call that a disallowed goal, 'cause play was done when the whistle blew.
In the second instance (the ball supposedly having crossed the line before it was passed), it was different. The whistle blew, and the Korean defence and goalie relaxed. The subsequent header into the net was frustration, or perhaps the striker had already started his jump - but it was not a disallowed goal. It WAS a very bad call, obviously.
There are some pictures posted on the internet (alas, only on Korean sites) where it shows somewhat clearly why that call was made. A player, i don’t recall who, was holding down one of korea’s players and the ball bounced off the back of the player that was being held. You have to look really hard to see it. It is a bit iffy looking, but i have faith in the ref. After all, I’m just a regular fan, while he’s a trained professional. I mean, c’mon, even you were being bribed you don’t make random calls.
Coldfire
Point taken. My apologies.
Brazil - Turkey 2-1
Brazil get penalty for a foul that happened outside the box
Rivaldo playacts, causing Hakan Ünsal to be sent off.
Italy - Croatia 1-2
Italy cheated for two legitimate goals.
Denmark - Senegal 1-1
Tomasson’s second goal disallowed and yellow card given for handling the ball after Tomasson received the ball on the chest.
Brazil - Belgium 2-0
Marc Wilmots cheated for a goal that would have sent Belgium one goal ahead.
Japan - Belgium 2-2
Inamoto cheated for a goal; Verheyen cheated for a penalty.
Mexico - USA 0-2
Mexico cheated for a penalty as an American defender boxed the ball inside the penalty area.
Sweden - Senegal 1-2
Henrik Larsson booked for “playacting” after being shoulder-barged by a Senegalese defender.
Senegal - Uruguay 3-3
Both teams were handed one penalty kick each.
South Korea - Italy 2-1 aet
Italy cheated for two legitimate goals; Totti sent off for second bookable offence for being tackled inside the box.
Sweden - Argentina 1-1
Crespo scoring on a rebound from a missed penalty as he was even with penalty shooter Ortega when the spot kick was taken.
Sweden - Nigeria 2-1
Henrik Larsson cheated for a penalty.
South Korea - Spain 0-0 (5-3 on pens)
Spain cheated for two legitimate goals.
It’s terrible for football that the referees have had such a big impact on the outcome of this tournament. Clearly, the worst major tournament in terms of officiating I’ve ever seen in my 46 years. Now, I’ll repeat, I’m not a subscriber to conspiracy theories, but if you look at how e.g. South Korea have been given favours over and over and over again, you have to ask yourself if there is a pattern. I hope for the sake of football that South Korea don’t win the World Cup. Not that I have anything against South Korea, but they wouldn’t be worthy champions after all the favours they have got from the referees. They should have been eliminated already in the 2nd round.