Sapo started a pit thread last night about another thread he had started that got disappeared. In his opening post he mentioned sending fluiddriud an email asking why it was closed and not getting a response. He further surmised that this thread too would be disappeared. As I posted to it and thought to myself, nah, it couldn’t happen twice I’m surprised to see in fact, it’s not here. Whereas I didn’t see the original thread and it may have been one that should have been closed, I don’t see why one asking about the one that had been closed, especially after getting no response in an email, is too far out of line. What gives?
Note that I’ve been on vacation for the last week and a half without a computer so I wasn’t involved in the issue under discussion. However, as a general rule, if a thread is locked or disappeared, further discussion is best handled via email or IM with the mods. Simply starting new threads on the same topic is an exceedingly bad way to deal with the issue, and may result in warnings, bannings or the end of all life on this planet and perhaps a few others.
He said he e-mailed and got no response. **Sapo **said he e-mailed and got no response. That’s the “best” way to handle it?
And not to carve too fine a point on it, Sapo’s thread was about why his thread was closed, and why he got no explanation for it. Omegaman’s thread was asking why *that *thread was disappeared. Not the same topic at all.
Shhh! Best not to talk about un-threads.
As I said, I can’t speak to this situation as I wasn’t involved. (Although, from my email it looks as if fluiddruid and others have been corresponding with Sapo and the situation has been resolved.)
But as a general rule, yes, it’s better to talk to us on email/IM than to keep starting new threads after we keep locking/disappearing the old ones. If you don’t get a response right away, it may be because we’re discussing it (which can be slow) or because we spaced out and your email got lost amidst a slew of reported posts. Be patient, and don’t hesitate to email again (or email other mods) if you don’t get a response.
I’m pretty jet-lagged, so apologies if I’m not understanding something I should, but I’m not seeing your point here. Omegaman was asking why Sapo’s follow-up thread was disappeared, which I was trying to address. Threads about disappeared threads may be themselves disappeared, if the reason for the disappearance was to avoid calling attention to something we’d prefer to keep off the boards.
In the absense of any information about the original thread, I’m just going to assume it was another thread about lolcat-speak. Straw, camel’s back, etc.
Not that I expect a reversal of the official warning I just got as a result of this thread, but I would like to insist for the nth time that my second thread was not a reopening of the first thread.
I have no objection to the closing of the first thread. I do not agree that it was trolling, which is what I am being accused of, but I do think that the mods are the ultimate arbiters of what goes and what doesn’t. If they decided that the thread was not appropriate, I am free to accept it or pick up my toys and go cry elsewhere.
My complaint was about the lack of response from TPTB. This lack of response seems to me that is widespread and common practice here at the SDMB, not a unique circumstance of my thread. That is what I was pitting.
Maybe the fine print of the TOS indicate that TPTB have no obligation to explain their decisions, but I do think that clarity benefits any business. More so one in the business of fighting ignorance.
My private communications with the mods just went from “don’t do this again or else” to “else just happened and you have the official warning we told you you were lucky not to get”. To me, it seems that TPTB are just pissed that what they hoped they could keep under blankets drew enough attention that they won’t be able to bury it cleanly. To vent their frustration, they took a cheap shot at me with a warning.
Whatever.
The initial thread was closed and removed as an act that we considered trolling.
There was, indeed, a difference of opinion (I believe innocent) as to whether Sapo received sufficient reason for the initial closing and removal. (The Mod thought the answer was obvious based on a specific statement in the exchange; Sapo did not construe the comment in the same way and was waiting for further response.)
One reason the thread discussing the first removal was made to go away is that, in the view of the staff, any discussion of that removal would result in a re-opening of the discussion we felt was inappropriate to begin with. (In other words, there is a strong feeling that the second thread had as much to do with keeping the original topic alive as it did with discussing staff actions.)
We also had a number of other issues taking our attention, last night, so it is possible that one Mod or another thought that a different Mod was handling a situation while this one fell through the cracks.
Given that we do not see a way that the various closings and removals can actually be discussed without re-openng the matter that has already been ruled a trolling violation, (and it ain’t a big deal, but we consider it a violation of the Don’t Be A Jerk rule), trying to get specific threads restored or re-opened or discussed is simply a non-starter.
From Sapo’s post above, I can see that it was resolved. Not satisfactorily, but resolved nonetheless.
I have never gotten a reasonable response from fluiddruid. It is an exercise in futility to try. And the BBQ Pit is the forum for questioning moderator decisions.
No, you understood. It was my undertanding that was lacking. Sorry.
For the record, once past the first lapse of non-responsiveness, fluiddruid is the only one who has sent clear responses that show some effort to understand my position. I do not agree with her take on the situation, but s/he clearly is showing some empathy and a desire to make me understand the mod’s decisions.
Frank was angry from the get go. All I have gotten from him was accusations, finger pointings, “you are lucky it is not worse”, and “don’t do this again”. Never any indication that he even read my posts. ETA: a surprise to me, since I always took him for fair handed.
Well you getting a warning seems kind of shitty considering I’m the one who started the thread. When I saw the op of your thread last night my reply to you was kind of a half hearted jest. I guess if you can draw a warning for a thread that I started maybe there’s more to it than shit to be joking about. I’ve noticed that you have questioned board actions several times in the about this message board forum before and where as I didn’t really feel you were out of line I guess maybe expressing you’re opinion about the board and moderator actions doesn’t seem to be a privilege you get when pony up your dues. I guess I’d better be shutting up now before I draw a warning for starting a thread that was really just a question about a thread that I really didn’t know too much about. It’s good to know what’s safe to talk about and what isn’t though. Fuck, sapo sorry to see you getting the shitty end of the stick.
As I have said, I have no intention to argue that point. Mods decide and that’s that.
The exchange went like this:
I sent one PM asking if it was mod action or hamster malfunction.
The response: Mod action. It is under review.
I asked: Is it because it is bigger than a breadbox (changed a bit to prevent a reopen)
The response: I don’t like things bigger than a breadbox, but it is under discussion.
After that I waited on hold listening to Windham Hill for 3 days waiting for the results of such discussion. I did believe some additional response was coming
I wish I had a quarter for every time I said this. I understood the first post was removed (and not just locked) because it was considered non-kosher. I have my stupid moments, but even I understood that. Because of that, I made sure there was no mention to the first thread in my second pitting. I even said on that post
I will not provide much detail, lest this be considered a second attempt at sneaking the original thread in.
And my last sentence was:
So 3 days after my thread was disappeared, I am here to ask if I am still waiting for a decision (?!), or for an explanation.
I do not think I could possibly make it clearer that I was not trying to sneak the topic back in.
Now I even got an official warning for it, after it was “decided” that I was not going to get it.
I just don’t get it.
Don’t take it to heart. That the warning came because of this thread is my interpretation of it. I am sure they see it differently.
I have no idea what this situation is about, since I missed the original deleted thread, and the subsequently deleted thread as well. But I must say that with only the veiled comments about “forbidden subjects” and “moderators action should be discussed in private” I have read in this thread to go on, this whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
In which of the three PMs I sent you did I say either of the things you’ve quoted me as saying?
While I am all for keeping things in the open, the infraction in question was trolling. By allowing a member to post a rant about why they weren’t allowed to troll, they essentially circumvent the original thread’s removal. The same would apply for other cases - for example, if someone’s thread was removed for spam, we wouldn’t allow them to post the original spam message in a complaint thread.
Sapo, and everyone else, are entitled to their opinions - but for clarity, Sapo’s warning was a result of not heeding moderator instructions, not for anything that Omegaman posted.
I had no idea this MB was so steeped in mystery!
Please, not again. My second pitting had no intention of reopening the first one. How is that not clear?
And what were these moderator instructions, exactly?
Let us take a look at this together. Here is the whole exchange. (the ??? are there to cover the things that should not be named, lest this be considered yet another try at reopening that which shall not be reopened). You tell me when were any of my questions answered. I will mark in red the parts I feel are angry and dismissive.
Post after post, all you do is accuse me of trolling and then end in a threat. A pointless threat since you took action anyways without any further offense from me.
Starts with my pm:
c’mon man.
You know the difference between a jerk and a regular guy who is pissed off. All I am asking for is some kind of response, I don’t get the silent treatment bull I am getting for no reason.
Why on Earth was my pitting from today disappeared?
xxx
Originally Posted by Frank
Your original thread was trolling, pure and simple. You know it; I know it; we all know it.
It’s not possible to discuss it on the board without allowing you the opportunity to play the disingenuous victim, and none of us can be bothered.
xxx
And did it take 3 days and a third party to let me know that? fluiddruid could have typed just that and be done with it. Why go through the bull of saying it was under review and pending a decision?
Still, that does not answer why today’s thread was disappeared. It had nothing to do with the topic of the first thread. I made the point of avoiding it, and noting I was avoiding it.
I was pitting the deny, delay, attention don’t pay attitude of <whoever it was, fluiddruid?> for disappearing my thread, telling me to hold and hanging up on me. Can’t I Pit that?
xxx
Originally Posted by Frank
With difficulty, at this point. You could have just PMed fluiddruid again, you know. Asked, “What’s up?” or something like that.
And frankly, I’ve not a lot of sympathy for you. You were trolling, and you knew it. Now you’re going to get bent out of shape because no one told you you were trolling? Yeah.
Frank
xxx
That’s just circling the wagons and you know it.
What’s the hangup? That the topic is tainted of ??? and it must be buried at all costs? Please, you guys can be bigger than that.
If you are telling me that you have not a bit of curiosity as to ??? and do not want to see about it, well, I guess you are a better man than I am.
But this is not about that anymore. I am bent out of shape because of the policy of covering stuff and pretending nothing happen until people forget. Now you are telling me that I cannot pit that. That sucks and you know it. Not Ignorance fighting at all.
xxx
Originally Posted by Frank
Covering up what? That you were trolling? Covering up that you didn’t get warned for trolling? Covering up that a mod didn’t tell you that you were trolling?
Disingenuous victim, indeed.
You’ve used up my patience. Let me just make it very clear to you that if you start any more threads on the subject, you will be warned.
Frank
xxx
Thanks for your time, I guess. I am feeling enlightened already.
I’m not going to be drawn into an argument with you. Again, for the second time now, explain to me how posting a thread saying “How many of my threads are you going to remove”, just after a moderator removed your thread, isn’t opening a new thread after one was closed?
In any case, you’ve been warned, and frankly I see no point in hashing out in a public forum when we can’t really get to the meat of the matter. You have my PMs, you have Frank’s PMs. We’ve explained to you that you’re acting unreasonably, and to stop it. Now, it’s up to you.