From initial googling, I think my “worse than 3 to 1” memory came from total casualties (including wounded), so I’ll go ahead and tentatively withdraw the claim about deaths (since the numbers in my head turned out to be confused).
It appears that there’s not a huge amount of controversy over the total number of deaths in Gaza – 40-50,000 or thereabouts (so far), AFAICT. There is controversy over the total number of combatants killed – AFAICT, the IDF has not actually provided clear and verifiable basis for their claims of combatant deaths.
Yes, I’ve been surprised that Israel and the Gaza ministry of health have consistently published similar numbers for total dead. I’m inclined to accept those numbers.
…they haven’t revealed the full methodology. We’ve got as much reason to believe this number as we do the idea that there is gold being hidden in bunkers under hospitals in Lebanon.
If you want to go with calculated guess, that’s fine with me.
The highest estimate of casualties, including those that are dying from sickness, illness, famine, or buried is in the hundreds of thousands. Again: this is where most experts think the death toll actually is. The IDF have literally been chasing people from one end of Gaza to another. Most of the population have been displaced. The north has been cut off from most food, water and medicine for a month and everywhere else is in very bad shape.
You are literally living in cloud cuckoo land.
From the numbers I posted earlier:
By your numbers, almost every single man in Gaza that has been killed is Hamas, along with a good proportion of the women and children. You agree that can’t be right?
(And unlike the IDF methodology, you can check these numbers yourself.)
You’re claiming hundreds of thousands of deaths, so at least 4 times what Hamas claims or more, and you’re telling me I’m living in cuckoo land… OK buddy.
Aside from discussion of the particular quoted source there, which as I noted is incredibly biased -
Is the international norm for countries to release full breakdowns of their methodology during an ongoing conflict, or is that typically something done post mortem? Given your background, you’d likely know more than I do on the topic - that’s a genuine question.
Given that the Israeli estimates match up with what both sides agreed on once the dust settled in prior conflict, is there a specific reason to doubt these estimates even if the methodology isn’t publically available yet?
It is a very broad estimate. And the reality is with Israel literally cutting off the borders, not allowing in independent journalists and killing Palestinian ones, the deliberate targeting of the healthcare system, it will be years, perhaps decades, before we know the true impact on the Palestinian people.
…Gaza has almost completely dropped from the news.
But the situation on the ground is at its worst. And will not get better.
From the latest flash update:
Israel are still not letting anything get through to the north. Its starvation. Its genocide.
There are pictures and video of tents just sitting in water. Children wading in knee-deep water.
The Hamas police and security infrastructure that have been largely protecting and securing aid deliveries have been systematically taken out, and lawlessness and gangs have filled in the gaps. All entirely by design. What aid is getting through is being hijacked, reports on the ground say all with the tacit approval of the IDF.
So basically since the 20th of November, there have been no Civil Defense operating in northern Gaza. There is no fuel for their vehicles. The last fire engine destroyed a couple of weeks ago. And they were being targeted and arrested.
What this means is that there is no rescue coming. People trapped under the rubble at least had a chance before. But there is no way for anyone to accurately record the death toll now. Any numbers you hear, as I’ve been saying for a while, are a significant undercount.
Since the start of this war, the IDF have targeted aid workers and UN staff, killing hundreds.
I challenge anyone here to provide a logical explanation within the confines of international humanitarian law that explains what they are doing to Kamal Adwan Hospital.
Weeks ago it was raided. Hospital staff detained or arrested and questioned. When released, the director of the hospital, Dr. Hussam Abu Safiya found that the IDF had murdered his 15 year old son, who had been sheltering in the hospital, by drone.
Since then, Israel have continued the siege on the hospital. Not letting in supplies. Bombing it. Shelling it. Shooting it.
Today they killed Dr. Ahmad Ziad Al-Kahlout, Head of ICU as he was going into work. Reports that Indonesian Hospital has come under increasing attacks in the last 72 hours. Patients sitting in darkness.
I don’t want to hear about “tunnels under Al Shifa” any more. To the defenders in this thread, what justifies these attacks? Israel have complete and utter domination of these hospitals. They can raid them, inspect them, and kill with inpunity at arms length by drone. If Hamas were using it as a base, or for storage, or were “hiding in tunnels” we would know about it by now.
I said this a year ago. And people accused me of being a “mouthpiece of Hamas.” They accused me of “blood libel.” In this very thread only a few weeks ago a couple of people made jokes about me and a pager.
But I wasn’t wrong then. And I’m not wrong now. Israels obligations under the Geneva conventions and international humanitarian law are very clear. And what they did to Al Shifa was a war crime, what they are doing at Kamal Adwan is a war crime.
Skin and respiratory infections, acute diarrheal illnesses and other viral diseases. Over 300 children treated daily at just one (still operating) hospital.
Gaza is a concentration camp. And its a genocide folks.
So basically there are no stabilization centres for malnutrition in the north. No humanitarian corridors. Severe shortage of baby food and milk.
A reminder that it isn’t just the bombs that will be killing Palestinians. With millions of people displaced, living in tents or bombed out buildings, aid agencies are having to develop plans to protect flood-prone areas filled with tents with sandbags. Sewage systems are broken. Rubbish just left to accumulate.
A reminder: this is all deliberate. It isn’t an “act of god.” This isn’t a storm or an earthquake. The aid is being deliberately held up at the border.
As always, much more at the link.
No matter how much the deniers will argue, the plan is pretty clear. Northern Gaza will be annexed, then settled. The rest of Gaza will suffer a slow, quiet death. Eventually, any Palestinians left in Gaza will be allowed to and “encouraged” to leave. Don’t take my word on it.
Don’t believe the “they are just extremists” line. They’ve been saying it from the start. The tactics and strategy match the rhetoric. As they’ve been “killing Hamas” the seige hasn’t been let up: things have just gotten worse.
And they don’t care about the hostages. They never did. The Isreali government are just hoping they die. It will make it easier for them if they did.
And by assassinated, I mean a drone was hovering over the neighbourhood until Chef Mahmoud walked out his door, then was murdered.
A World Central Kitchen vehicle targeted and 5 workers killed.
But this time the workers were all Palestinian, so you won’t see the same outrage from the west, even the WCK have bought into the narrative that one of the workers “may have been there on October 7th.” They are gaslighting here:not promising an investigation as to why the WCK car was targeted, but demanding an investigation as to why “WCK and the international community are hiring of workers who took part in… terrorist activity against Israel”.
It’s disgusting. And they are going to get away with it.
The lead article in the NY Times today says the cease-fire is “largely holding” and then goes on to list various new bombings by Israel, including the assassination of the World Central Kitchen people. The title should have said “Israel violates cease-fire, kills World Central Kitchen workers.” Fuck the Times.
p.s. The article did not list any attacks initiated by Hezbollah, so the attacks were all caused by Israel.
I was following, I knew that, but I confess my post didn’t make that clear. WCK wasn’'t in the cease-fire zone but Israel DID break the cease fire without provocation and they ALSO attacked WCK in a separate area.
p.s. – When I post when I’m really pissed off I often come off sounding confused.
…so today on Twitter, I logged on to see videos of dead Palestinians lying in the rubble being eaten by cats if you want to know what stage of the genocide we are in. Cats just swarming over the bodies.
Ammnesty International have released a report concluding Israel is committing genocide. HRW have concluded Israel are committing the “crime of extermination” and “acts of genocide” in Gaza. Netanyahu and Gallant have had arrest warrants issued for “crimes against humanity and war crimes.” Add to that the opinion from multiple historians and scholars, other human rights agencies, the case against Israel currently working its way though the International Court of Justice, I don’t think there is room for any doubt now. Israel is committing genocide. And we let it happen.
…yesterday Israel assassinated five journalists. They were waiting in a clearly marked press vehicle outside Al-Awda hospital, while waiting for news about journalist Ayman Al-Jadi’s wife, who was having a child. There is video of the aftermath of the strike. This isn’t that video: it’s video of Ayman before the strike, as he has dinner to celebrate about to become a father.
So that’s 201 journalists killed now, according to the Gaza media office. 133 according to the CPJ, which uses a much stricter definition.
Kamal Adwan hospital has been under siege for over a couple of months. It’s been raided at least once. The IDF murdered the hospital directors son while he had been taken away for questioning. Its been targeted multiple times by bombs and shooting.
About an hour ago, 5 medical workers were killed in a strike by the IDF. It included a pediatrician, a laboratory specialist, a medical equipment technician and two paramedics.
Yesterday 3 infants died of hypothermia. A reminder that nearly the entire population, almost 2 million people, have been displaced, most multiple times. Many have had their homes destroyed. Many living in tents, in bombed out buildings, in the rubble, in make-shift encampments, with very little protection from the weather and the elements.
A couple of days ago the American ambassador to Israel criticised the recent fews-net report on food insecurity because the civilian data estimates (from November) of between 65-75,000 people in the northern governorate wasn’t accurate. Lew suggests a number between 7 and 15,000 (based on COGNAT and UNRWA estimates) are more accurate.
So my question to the ambassador is…where did those people go? It’s a tacit admission that ethnic cleansing is going on. That the northern governorate is being depopulated rapidly on a massive scale.
Here’s the latest flash update. I don’t have time to summarise. But it looks like Indonesian Hospital has finally been forcibly evacuated and is shut down. Food security has again deteriorated. Miscarriages on the rise.
More devastating evidence of the ongoing genocide at the link.
…not that anyone cares any more: but Kamal Adwan Hospital has been raided, many hospital staff and some patients detained and disappeared, others forcibly removed and forced south. A skeleton crew of medical staff have been allowed to remain along with any patients who absolutely can’t be moved.
Kamal Adwan was the last remaining Palestinian hospital in the north. Shutting it down is a warcrime. Just adding it to the IDF’s list. I hope one day all those who either ordered or perpetrated this genocide face justice.
Despite the confident assertions from many here that this wasn’t the case: the north is being cleared and Palestinians won’t be allowed to return. The IDF have been systematically flattening the refugee camps. Expelling the occupants and either killing or disappearing those who remain.
Apparently according to some that used to frequent this thread: I’m Hamas. I’m a “propaganda tool for Hamas” which makes me the equivalent of these fallen journalists.
