Hell maybe just get rid of everything downstream of GD (or maybe elections).
We’re not talking about “fighting ignorance”. We’re talking about racism and other forms of bigotry and hatred hiding behind scientific-sounding words and politeness.
The Bell Curve has been throroughly debunked. How many times do we need posters claiming it is legitimate science and proves blacks are inferior?
I’m NOT saying we can’t discuss race, or sexual orientation etc. I’m saying we can discuss these topic if we are honestly trying to fight ignorance.
People really need to get over the board’s stupid tagline. This is a forum where people have ideological slapfights and occasionally answer factual questions in a forum whose good reponses come from maybe 6 posters with very narrow specialties, and is increasingly eclipsed by Ask<X> subreddits, the Stack Exhchange network, and educational Youtube channels or Discord servers. This dead forum is not even in the top 20 places on the internet to go if you want to make people change their minds or help them learn about the world. Just say you like arguing because you view the opposition as ignorant, I’m not gonna tell on you, pinky promise.
At best some people like me are trying to do damage control so the trolls and bigots aren’t the only voices around saying shit about people, an endeavor I’m increasingly convinced is pointless given the board’s low number of users and inflexibility of the users. I guess at best you may “fight ignorance” by giving already sympathetic posters slightly more nuanced views.
I do have to admit that several of those posts are questionable, and might be Modded today in 2019/20. OTOH, quite a few of those posters have been Banned, so there’s that.
But in general the tone of that thread is condemnation of the rapists, and some trying to understand how the fuck that could be happening.
Huh. How do you reconcile that statement with this one:
So which is true, DrDeth?
The former was a quote of kambuckta:
~Max
You can say you condemn rapists but also make arguments that end up producing and shielding them, or harming the victim hth
That’s just not why I come here.
~Max
Oops. My apologies to DrDeth.
Implying that someone is fearful is a direct insult but calling someone “a sea lion” iddn’t. Oh bullshit.
It is a very stupid insult mostly usually called out by those who feel they can use it to avoid actually engaging in discussion or are unable to defend their positions.
But it is clearly an insult and a worse one that saying that someone is afraid.
And how do you determine if the question and responses are posted in bad faith if you always give posters the benefit of the doubt? This is a serious question.
Our loss, I suppose.
Seriously, why? There are times that despite my best efforts to put myself in any specific “their” place I cannot understand what being in their place is like. I can still appreciate that their lived experience is as they report it to be and do a reasoned best to be respectful of it.
Now that does not mean that I automatically believe that the individual speaks for anyone else, let alone most of, let alone all of, any specific group or class, or that the individual’s feelings automatically counts more than anything else. But I do need to consider that they do speak for more than just themselves as individuals and that their experience, even if it something that I cannot understand, may be shared by some significant number of others. Being considerate to others sensitivities even if we don’t understand the reasons for the sensitivity, even if we can’t imagine ourselves in that place, is simply the right thing to do. Advocating that others not be rude in that context is also something I’d think you could sign on to.
Larry Borgia, yes it would be.
Read it: :rolleyes:
**kambuckta **replied: …
*Oh, and FTR, I’m a woman, and I know plenty of male shrieking harpies too. Idiocy on this scale knows no gender boundaries it seems.
*
He already apologized
So are you saying you don’t believe people when they say these things are offensive, or that them being offended just isn’t enough, and only *your *offense counts (as in the case of a suicide thread)?
I’m going to start a thread on how Jews really wanted the Holocaust so they could get Israel out of it. Should that thread just be ignored?
Then I’m going to start one on how White people are failed genetic experiments by the Black scientist Yakub, which you can tell by their shrivelled penises. Should that thread also just be ignored?
No, it really isn’t, any more than Coke adds life or Google is not evil.
The problem isn’t with the people being offended, it’s with the people offending. The proper treatment for that is pretty obvious, and it isn’t “allow them to offend as much as they’d like”.
Yes, I read and reply in order.
The issue is whether being offended is a reasonable reaction and whether, even if it is, someone’s being offended is sufficient cause to shut down discussion. Being offended in and of itself is meaningless, people get offended all the time. In all but the most extreme examples that’s just part of life, especially in a free society where people can largely say or do what they wish. Generally speaking, your offense in such a society is your problem. It’s part of living in a society among other humans with their own rights to express themselves in a manner which may very well cause offense.
Do you feel the need, for example, to cater to a racist offended by the very presence of a person of another race or do you discount it entirely as an unreasonable reaction? Or would you even go further and act or speak in a manner which may cause a racist even greater offense without regard at all to their feelings? See, sometimes the problem is with the offended person and not the purported offender. I think you know this but you just want one standard for yourself and people you agree with and another for everyone else.
So let someone go ahead and make your hypothetical threads about the Holocaust or Yakub or whatever so the inherent illogic and stupidity of such ideas can be exposed. I’d be “offended” in one sense not because I’m white (so very white, like in a kinda sad way) or have some Jewish ancestry but by the existence of such stupidity, whether directed at me or not. But I’m not offended in the sense of undertaking some grand moral crusade because I just don’t really give a shit what such people think and choose to go on with my life as if it doesn’t affect me, because it really doesn’t in any meaningful way unless I choose to let it.
I found it. The world’s most privileged post.
Politics isn’t a some ideological game of chess played in the heads of a bunch of airy philosophers. It’s fucking life and death for marginalized people. Bigoted rhetoric isn’t just some words on a message board, it’s a contribution to a cultural ideal that aims to deny you rights, deny you services, in some cases even kill you.
And “step up and bring your heinous ideas, that we may debunk them” only works if everyone is coming to the table in good faith. It’s a dangerous fucking game because, sure, best case you utterly humiliate them, but worst case they disseminate their message and gain new recruits. Turns out there they didn’t care if their argument got demolished, they just wanted to hand out metaphorical pamphlets to onlookers who may be interested.
The answer, in the case of racism, misogyny, transphobia, homophobia, is “Yes”
Yes, that is in fact the discussion we’re having. Well spotted.
Well, there we have it.
Apparently the problem all along was we haven’t been considering the poor racists’ fee-fees.
Not enough :rolleyes: in the world for such an idiotic notion.