I’m all for kinder and gentler. Ironically, some people are going to have to be forced into it. What changes will there be to moderation? The ones who can’t police themselves are the problem, so someone will have to do it for them.
And you got a warning for pointing out in a thread about Traci Lords’ porn that they are talking about a minor. You know, the good old days.
I think that not one single rule would have to be changed to make this a better and more welcome place, but that the existing ones have to be applied more strictly, especially about trolling and most important, the IMHO mighty rule “don’t be a jerk”.
Exactly. And “I’ll hold them for you” cracks in bra threads. Even today, if someone literally says “Africans are genetically inferior, and by and large lack the capacity to be as intelligent as whites”, well, it’s the person that calls them “racist” who is being mean-spirited, and trying to censor honest discussion.
Look, I’m civil. Twenty years, I’ve been civil. But there are real problems that aren’t about lack of civility. It’s that one person’s abstract philosophical debate is someone elae’s life.
So I’m not clear what we’re being asked to do. Are they asking me to stop calling out racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry? The answer is no.
I’m pretty sure there were one or two other posters who did basically the same thing you did, but I don’t recall specifics.
It sounds like people who get nostalgic for the “good old days” of the 50s and 60s. Back when racism was socially acceptable and women, if they worked instead of being housewives, could be harassed and told to suck it up and go get married and have babies if they didn’t like it. Or women could be abused by their husbands and had to put it with it because divorce was just such a terrible sin.
Ugh! That’s exactly what I was talking about! You can’t call a jerk, whether it’s racist, sexist, or just plain creepy, a jerk without getting in trouble yourself, and the trolls and shit-stirrers know that and take advantage of it. That’s why you need moderators who are willing to put their feet dowbn on that kind of stuff, and why they have to be allowed to do it.
Good point.
Excellent.
The problem with that is every contentious concept that could be debated/argued about in a forum such as Great Debates when extrapolated to the real world inevitably has real life consequences. It’s the nature of the forum. Sure you can call it Great Debates and only allow one side just like Elections can be DNC HQ as well. But then the names are farcical.
NYT just had an editorial on the Venezuelan sanctions. Children are dying as we type, in part, because of the sanctions. If we were to debate the pros and cons of using sanctions as a tool for regime change would it be appropriate to call one advocating the pro sanction side a racist baby killer? Should the debate be disallowed because the fact that children are dying is too emotionally damaging for some to discuss?
Like the pit, nobody is forced to participate in a debate or a topic they find distasteful.
And there are fewer around to absorb any fringes that pop up; making people bail even faster. But I still think this is one of the ones that will last.
It’s worse than that, even. Message boards invite discussion and debate. Those are dying out. Social media, like Facebook and Twitter, do not invite discussion. They invite opinion sharing.
In our modern world, everybody having their say, expressing their opinion, making their voice heard is more valued than conversation and discussion.
So nobody ever has to be wrong.
How that might factor into fixing this board, I don’t know.
Sorry for coming in late to a thread that I seem have started, but I just noticed it.
There’s a lot I could say but tricoteuse already said it probably better than I would.
“Don’t be a jerk” also says it all. Jerks will be jerks unless they are stopped. Somehow, the Dope lost the conviction that jerks should be stomped on hard, and swiftly.
As an old white man, I’m conflicted. I don’t quite go back as far as Mario Savio’s Free Speech Movement but I was around during Nixon, when the idea of allowing all political sides to speak was under active attack and the use of four-letter words and sexual language could and did send people to jail.
I thought I was a free-speech absolutist. So did most of the people who invented the internet and the social platforms on it. Most of them have recanted and so do I. In an ideal world all topics could be freely debated in any and all terms. This isn’t that world. Jerks abound and try to ruin it for the rest of us.
The Dope is an extension of our homes and should be run that way. Posters should be told that if they can’t discuss a topic civilly they either change their tune or leave. Ban the pitting of posters; if they are being jerks that publicly the mods should act.
Nuts. tricoteuse already said this better. I’ll reduce it to one line: Stop punishing the people who call out the jerks and put a tight lid on the jerks. Things will get better.
The problem is that there is a mod or two that think only abusing the Queensberry Rules of debate is a reason to call someone a jerk. They haven’t learned that free speech absolutism is a dead end for discussion forums.
I don’t work for you, you work for me. You started to work for me when you took my money to be a member. I don’t care if it’s $15 or $1, once you took my money, the SDMB stopped being a website I posted on and became a product I buy. Fix it.
I am reminded of a recent blog post by John Scalzi in which he addressed the problem with “civility,” in a way that I found helpful.
Are you a millennial? Your money is next to meaningless. Nobody works for you. Other people with equally insignificant monetary contributions disagree with you on the fix. Quit acting like this is a phone delivered with a broken screen. The way to fix things here is not obvious to all.
There is truth to this. People are too quick to jump from “your ideas are bad” to “you’re an evil person”.
This is also true. If members can’t call out bad behavior except in the Pit, then moderators MUST.
Ok, boomer. If my money doesn’t matter, they shouldn’t have asked for it and I’m 53 gramps.
I turned 50 this year, fyi.
I stand by my point. Quit acting like you’re complaining about a bank service charge. This isn’t that.
Useless as saying the same thing to a cop. I hate to agree with CarnalK but that is less than helpful and a pretty jerkish thing to say.
ETA and I’m older than da botha ya.