Good point, Fretful.
lorinada might be a bit overdramatic but the advice is sound. Mr Nvme has control issues. Its a very bad symptom in any relationship and its looking to be getting worse. He is the one with problems not NVme77.
Issue#1: You took $200 for a legitimate reason. Heck, its even tax deductible if you kept the reciepts. He overreacts and withholds your allowance. First of all, if you take clients out, he should allow you a business budget. I would get a separate bank account and credit card just for that purpose and manage it separately from personal finances. If he cant swing that, your opinion that he is good at finances is dubious.
Issue#2: He threatens you with divorce over finances under a thousand dollars. Thats low and a very bad sign. I regard the subject of divorce much like pulling out a gun. Never do it unless you mean to use it. I dont joke with it or use it as a bluff. I certainly wouldnt use it on a trivial matter of 200 bucks. Letting him know you needed the money so he can work around it should have been the issue. You dont need his permission.
Issue#3: Confiscating your credit card is one thing, taking your drivers license is just wrong. Do you have a history of yanking finances out without permission? The fact that it can be done doesnt mean it will be done. Your word that you wouldnt do it again should be suffiicient for him. Until he proves with documents that you are out of control and are unable to restrain from withdrawing substantial amounts of money from several accounts, he has absolutely no legal, moral or spousal right to confiscate your IDENTITY. Thats what he’s taking. Your legal identity to the world. Without it, you are under his full control.
Issue#4: Lastly, this aggressive controlling attitude with threats of separation should send clear signals to you and you should be on full defensive alert. If he budgets your entire lives right down to the dollar, have you looked at what he is doing to those finances? Have you checked his books? How much money do you have saved up? Under whose name are your money under? Do you share joint custody of the house? Are the cars under both your names? Are your bank accounts and credit cards joint or can he just cancel your name anytime he wants to? How is he saving your money? Stocks? Money Market? IRA? under the mattress? can you access this money in case of an emergency like when gets into an accident or you find him in bed with his accountant.
In a divorce, the person who controls the money in a marriage usually is the one better off legally. He can hide the finances and delay the procedings while you are forced to pay for everything with what you earn. Get statements of all your holdings and keep them in a safe place away from him. He tries to divorce you, take it IMMEDIATELY to a lawyer so you can split it evenly. First one to a lawyer is usually the winner, financially.
If he tries that “I will divorce you” crap again tell him You’ll sic a lawyer on him, take the kids, throw him out of the house and force him to pay child support.
You know what I’d do? I’d insist on taking over the finances for a while–bills, savings, investments, the works. Tell him you want to learn as much as possible about the overall plan. Don’t let him put you off.
Fretful Porpentine’s warning is one you should really consider. A friend of ours was treated in a similarly disrespectful way by her husband for many years. She finally divorced him when she discovered that he had run up $50,000 in debt buying stamps for his collection over the internet.
On the allowance thing:
A number of years ago my husband and I used this system. We both got $150 a pay period, no questions asked what you did with it. Seperate checking accounts for the allowance. I used mine for lunches, hair cuts, books, etc. I think his went to comic books and MtG cards. It really worked well. We stopped, more because it had become fairly moot - our income level changed enough that we didn’t need to keep such a close eye on individual spending.
So an allowance may not be as patronizing as it sounds.
We’ve now moved to more of an “exception” way of dealing with money. Any exceptional expenses need to be discussed before they are made (except in an emergency). In fact, my husband just got himself in deep doo doo for a $1600 not preapproved shopping spree.
However NVME has a different problem. I would consider entertaining clients to be an emergency and would readily forgive the hubby for $200 (or $2000, provided it was going to be reimbursed) for that purpose. Your husband neither trusts you or respects you. Money, to the tune of $200, is more valuable to him than you are. $200 in the scale of retirement and college is nothing. (Now, had you drained $2000 for the purposes of the craps table, he’d be within his rights to do the tough love bit).
Get thee to a marriage counselor.
Nvme, my own experience makes me find your’s alarming.
My wife has a bit of a spending problem, and she used to be the one that handled all of the finances except for taxes. I pretty much ignored our accounts until tax time, at which time I would discover that she had spent more than we made. Not a lot, but by a hundred a month adds up year after year. I say she, because I spent so little money I didn’t even worry about the checking account balance. I spent maybe $10/week, not including groceries. I say “we” made, but I was our only income source at the time.
We finally had it out when it was April and we still owed a thousand from Christmas, and in doing the taxes I discovered we had lost $200/month over the past year. In a fit she shredded her credit card, and I opened a new account in my name into which all of my money went. I put her on a budget, with an allowance. Eight years later, she is still gets an allowance, but freely accesses her credit cards. (Not that it isn’t becoming a problem again. I’m not saying I have all the answers.)
Until you said it, it [it] never [/it] once occurred to me to take her driver’s license. I would never have had that thought in a million years. Your husband has some kind of issue. I don’t know if it is a control freak thing, a millionaire pauper thing (you know, the guy that lives in a grocery cart, but is worth $10 mill), or Fretful’s point about some hidden financial debacle, but there is definitely something wrong in your relationship.
There are better ways to handle finances. Put your ATM and credit cards in a container full of water and put it in the freezer. Then you have to wait a few days to use them. Have an account with limited amounts of cash which is the only one to which either of you have access. There are endless ideas.
If you have a spending problem, and he can’t trust you with your ID, your marriage is sick. If you don’t have a spending problem, he is sick, and by extension your marriage. This is unnatural.
I would ask for my driver’s license back. If he gets really angry, back down. Then go to a shelter, because you can’t know if he is dangerous. (Yeah, sure you live with him and think you know him. The cemetaries are full of people who had no clue.) If he gives it to you, use it to find out what is in your joint accounts. If there is little there, ask him where the money is. If he won’t, see a lawyer and a marriage counsellor, because you will need them. You have every right to know the state of [it] your [/it] finances.
Okay. I’m gonna play devil’s advocate here, because I’m a little ticked by everyone and their brother yelling out ‘divorce the bum!’ every time someone is blowing off steam about their spouse. I’m surprised that no one has said ‘crucify him!’
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I agree that Mr. Nvme has control issues. that’s not good for everyone over the long run, especially as your kids grow older. He’s going to have to learn to relax somewhat, but I can’t comment on much else without more info.
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we’re not getting a complete picture as to your spending habits. This expenditure seems business related, so seems reasonable, but how many times have you gone and withdrawn money without telling him? it’d have to get pretty bad before i took away my wife’s cards (and never her ID) but I’d probably do it if she regularly took out money needed for necessities to spend. If you can’t control your spending habits, please don’t get mad when someone else (financially tied to you) does it for you. Frankly, if it got bad enough with my wife that I could not trust her, I’d have advocated divorce before I felt the need to take her ID.
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you are the major earner in your household- do you take an interest in paying the house bills? even if he is the primary, do you sit with him, go over it? I bet you he has a much clearer idea of what you spend than you do. It is easy to nickle and dime one’s self into the poorhouse. If he thought that you took him seriously, I bet he’d be more flexible.
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allowance is not a bad thing in itself. so long as he is restricted as well in his spending. Of course, to be aware of this, you’d have to see #3.
Just my thoughts on it. I could be totally wrong…but without more info, it’s hard to make any judgement. The only thing I am sure of is that your problem is not just $200.
I stand by my previous statements. At least one of them has a serious problem. If she has a spending problem to the point that a reasonable man feels obligated to take her license, they have a serious problem that requires counselling. If not, then he has real issues. If they both have a problem, which is not improbable, they both need counselling. Any way you slice it, their relationship is not well.
Let’s not forget that they have three children; IMO, divorce decisions become much more difficult with kids in the picture. And, let’s face it, we all have things we’ll live with, and things we won’t when it comes to our spouses. (And I couldn’t live with the allowance scenario in any shape, form or fashion).
My concern for you, Nvme, is that you seem to be scared of him (perhaps I’m interpreting your posts incorrectly, maybe it’s just scared of losing him?) Please be careful and find help.
Well stonebow either
1: She is exaggerating
2: She is leaving out some critical bit of history or information that would help us to understand why he is engaging in the seemingly nutty behavior of taking her license and then threatening divorce over a $ 200 expenditure or …
3: She is telling the God’s honest truth and he is a controlling nut when it comes to finances, but is apparently a prince otherwise.
I will admit the license thing did jar my BSometer a bit but people have done and will do all kinds of nutty things if they can get away with it in order to control their environment, and it is not beyond the scope of understanding that someone on the edge of paranoia or fear might try this.
I think the OP has serious martial difficulties and that changing her hubby (if he is really doing this stuff) is pretty much a lost cause at this stage of his life as this seems to be a very ingrained behavior. I also suspect there is very major chunk missing out of this story but for now will take the OP at her word.
Based on the information that’s been given, the steps I’d take are:
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Take a trip to the DMV and get a new license. Tell them I’d lost mine.
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Head to the bank and get a complete picture of the finances.
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Next stop would be the attorney’s office, just to get an idea of how to protect myself if his threat of divorce is serious.
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Go to a marriage counselor, with or without the husband.
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Depending on the husband’s reaction to this, possibly head back to the attorney.
He gave you the ATM card to use on your night out and then (per your OP) threatened divorce when you used it? How can you even be expected to abide by his rules when he changes them mid-game?
The dynamic of your marriage does not sound at all healthy; no one should have that level of control over a capable adult’s life. I’ll 2nd what others have said - get some counselling soon!
I’m asleep when my husband gets home and he was in a very penitent mood when he got home. Since I was sleeping he didn’t go into very much detail but amended the hold out date on funds to Saturday. This morning when I called him I coolly let him know that I was glad to be going out of town on business because I thought we needed some time apart. He asked me if I still love him, and I told him that I loved him but wondered why he would say divorce. He sighed and apologized for being so stressed out but he didn’t like surprises when it comes to our bank account.
I told him that if he was unhappy with what I had done, a better way of expressing it would be to say my actions are detrimental to the health of our relationship.
Many of you have made good points. The biggest step we have to take is to sit down and talk about our finances. Although I do earn slightly more than he does,I need to empower myself at home and understand all the bills, timelines for payment and stock accounts. I’m going to get my drivers license back. I’m going to get my atm card back too. I will sit and pay bills with him so that he knows I do respect and appreciate the patience and restraint we need to exercise to keep us in a positive financial situation.
Like one of the posters said( sorry I read everything too fast)
I need to grow up and take care of my stuff too!
Thanks everybody.
So good to hear you’re standing up for yourself, Nvme!
But, wait…YOUR actions are detrimental to the health of the relationship? No.
Please consider the advice (especially therapy) that’s been posted on this board. You’re a stranger to me, but I feel for you. Good luck.
Good for you, NVME! It sounds like he knows he crossed a line, both financially and within your relationship. Getting familiar with the bill situation is not only a good idea for your current situation, but it is a NECESSITY, in case anything ever happens to him. You MUST know what your financial situation is and how to navigate it. My mother-in-law had to take over finances after my FIL had a stroke. She had no clue what was going on, and is still feeling overwhelmed with regard to insurance, investments, and the like.
When I started learning how to conduct my financial affairs like an adult (thanks to my husband), it made me feel closer to him. More like a team member, I guess. I can’t explain it, but discussing these things together and making decisions as a committed unit makes our marriage stronger. Weird, huh?
Glad to see you made a stand. Really curious: why did this not occur to you before (like when he asked for–and you [seemingly without thinking it a big enough deal to make a stink about it] gave him–your license? Is this stand happening now only because fellow Dopers have expressed their unease concerning the situation you have been describing? Well, whatever it takes. Quite the about-face. More power to you, literally.