This is a line of thought I’ve been pondering today. I think that (among people with poor body image or low self-esteem) most people have poor body image because they’re not attracted to their same sex in a sexual way, therefore they’re not used to evaluating that sex on an attractiveness scale. They’re looking at their (same/self sex) body in the mirror and thinking, “who would ever want to sleep with that?”, not realizing that they’re probably reasonably attractive to people for whom that sex is their preferred partner/mate. A straight woman is looking at herself in the mirror and cringing at elements like a slight belly or thick thighs, thinking “what man would ever want THAT?”, while the average man looks at that and says, “looks good.”
Now, with that in mind, do homosexuals have a better self image and self-concept, because they’re used to evaluating sexual attractiveness on members of their same sex? Are they more able to say, “I have a slight belly, but that doesn’t turn me off on other guys that I’m attracted to,” or “bald spots don’t bother me that much on other men I see at the gym, so my bald spot isn’t that big of a deal.”
I asked my sister (a lesbian), her answer was: " Uh… no." and her girlfriend looked at me like I had two heads.
Cultural expectations of actractiveness are still going to be consistent. If Jesscia Alba is on the cover of every magazine as the paragon of “sexy woman”, then that is sadly still going to be a cultural benchmark. There’s a lot more than feeling inadequate in the eyes of your preferred sex. Poor body image, IMHO, is often more broadly tied to conforming to society’s expectations in general and the examples of the cultural “standard of attractiveness” often defined/exploited by the media.
IIRC, there was a study recently that indicated that women put more effort into looking good for their peers than they do for their partners. I watched a documentary on Monday on steroid use and straight guys trying to look good for the sake of impressing other straight guys was a recurring theme too.
My sister’s point was that she is just as influenced by media types as a straight guy would be. So she feels she has been conditioned to find Keira Knightley both hot and a type she should aspire to date, as well as an example of attractiveness to which she should aspire to become.
Only my sister has more common sense than that.
It’s more like this: When I was a kid, I wasn’t worried that girls would find me goofy-lookin’. I was worried that the world would find me goofy-lookin’.
I’m not gay, but I have to say that there’s NO FREAKING WAY that I’d have a better self-image because I’m male if I was attracted to men. Because I’d take one good look at my body and go “No way I’d fuck that guy”.
Although I think that the premise is flawed, here’s my two cents:
I dealt with really big self-esteem issues until about high school, probably due to my obesity all throughout childhood (I’m still fat, but am out of the “obese” range). These days, I do wish I’d lose some weight, I’d like to not be balding this badly, I wish my skin weren’t so oily, and all of those things, but when I look in the mirror, I still think “Damn, I’d hit that.”
(for benefit of Kalibak as most Dopers know) I’m a gay male and the above is my experience also. The whole “No fatties/no oldies” thing, for example, is much more of a hang-up in the gay community.
The unfortunate thing is that 99.99999999% of the time, I’m the only who ends up hitting what I see in the mirror.
In the pre-J-Lo years, we were able to help a friend at the dorm who had a lot of self-image issues of the kind unsolvable by surgery or cosmetics (hi, you’re from Spain, long legs are not a part of the kit) by pointing out that “well, those chicks at Cosmo don’t like women with hips, but guys do. Who would you rather fuck?”
The media pressure is really hard to break… and notice that the previous sentence would not have worked if our friend had been interested in having sex with Cosmo writers.
I somewhat disagree. As a gay man, I can pretty much tell when society will find a woman attractive. Likewise, I’ve found that my straight friends are pretty apt at picking out which men are generally found to be attractive, even if they are not attracted to them, themselves. In my experience, straight men are the ones most likely to give you an honest answer when you ask “how do I look?”
Let us pretend that you got your hands on a time machine. You can go back to any time, any place. Let us suppose that you go back a day or a week or a year in time, and you go visit your past self. While talking to you, you and your past self decide that it would be a great idea to have sex with each other.
I’ve used this argument on friends with low self-esteem as a last resort, but sort of hate myself when I do. Why the hell should ‘But guys like that look?’ be what makes her happy, especially as every generation of boys seems to be getting a new, warped perspective on what ‘pretty’ or ‘fat’ is (see: Kate Winslet, Gisele Bunchen, Alicia Silverstone aka FatGirl).
As for gay people having better self-esteem… no. I think there are enough homobhopes in existence to beat that out of them pretty early on, sometimes literally. Though I do occasionally see gay male couples where the guys look like twins. It’s creepy. But they double their wardrobes!
Better self image because they are their preferred sex? No. Stereotypes usually arise for a reason, a good portion of gay men fit them. When I was a teen I was in denial about my sexual preference, but I was well aware of how far my physique was from the ideal. So, I tried to modify myself. The ideal is not in my genetics. At some point, I had the epiphany that an anatomically correct Ken doll was not better than what I was/am.
OTOH, I would guess that the coping mechanism for assessing attractiveness in a potential mate is the same for any sexual preference. You focus on what you like about your partner . After 11 years, you’re bound to have picked up a few undesirable features (my current fixation is my under-eye baggage). I’m assuming he’s ignoring that feature as I ignore his spare tire.
I think being partnered whether you are gay or straight will skew your self-perception to the positive. Still I’m my own worst critic. Sometimes when I look at myself in the mirror, and if I turn just so, and if I cut this light off and have just that light on, and if I get that other mirror and look at my image of my image in that mirror under these lighting conditions—Hey I’d do him!
Straight female weighing in, so I don’t have direct experience to speak from.
When I was 19, I worked at a popular restaurant in the gay district of a big city. I had moved from what might possibly have been the whitest, straightest town in my province. I was always liberal, but this was a huge eye opening experience for me. Most of the people who worked there were young, gay males (17-23). Most of them had severe image issues. They were constantly dieting, working out, complaining about their physique. I think some of it must have had to do with age and experience - the majority had moved from small towns and were newly publicly out. I think they were feeling the pressure to meet some standard of “gay” that they assumed/experienced on arrival in the city from their small towns. The older guys who worked there, in their 30s, seemed to have moved past this, but being a young, gay male seemed to be incredibly stressful vis-a-vis physical appearance, in a way that seemed to be extreme compared to the young lesbians.
Depends on a lot of things.
I lived in West Hollywood, CA - one of the largest Gay Meccas in the world, with lots of wannabe models and actors - and let me tell ya, guys there go to the gym practically every day and are totally buff, take care of their skin and hair and teeth, buy nice clothes and - anywhere else in the world, they would be considered perfect 10’s! But in West Hollywood, they were more insecure than ever;
"My nose isn’t perfect, I have a wart on my elbow, my skin is too light/too dark/too red, my hair is too thin, my eyes are too narrow, etc etc. " The competition is fierce to be “perfect” and just when you think you are looking good, in comes three other guys that make you feel like a troll. There are a few bars in the “Boys Town” area that are chock full of gorgeous guys, but I bet 98% would have a long list of perceived imperfections that make them feel insecure.
But it doesn’t really matter where you live - any guy going into a Gay bar anywhere on earth feels the same thing - that guy is better because he is taller, more handsome, thinner, stronger, more masculine, more buff, better teeth, better hair…
I’ve noticed quite a few womwn who seem perfectly happy, marrying a gay man. first. they are usuall disinterested in sex. second, they usually like the arts, and appreciate their man being well dressed and groomed. Finally, such women usually like men who cook, and are good at interior decorating-so they appreciate ahving a gay husband.
Anyone notice the same?
Uh… no." and her girlfriend looked at me like I had two heads.
