My friend’s husband is a lecherous man who gropes me at any opportunity … I have handled his behaviour incorrectly – he of course picked on me because of who/what I am and the fact that he knows I’m not going to kick him where he deserves it. Looking back … the first time he did it, I should have been rude to him and told him to stop … instead I giggled uncomfortably and tried to get away. He’s been doing this for years - in front of his wife and children… and I wish I was strong and had high enough self esteem that I was not an easy victim of his behaviour.
I’ve learnt to deal with it … I’ve spoken with his wife about it … the last couple of years have seen a dramatic decrease in any incidents (mostly because I don’t see them much) … and I’ve become better at stopping it. I wish he would do it just once – without his kids and wife there, so I could well and truly stop it forever.
Today I visited them and saw something that horrified me. All his relatives were there and when they were leaving and lining up to say goodbye, I watched him with one of his nieces. She was next in line for a “hug” … she stood back and held her arms around herself and shook her head … her parents and family stood by encouraging her into his arms … and he gave her a “bear” hug … and I heard those giggles I do, the uncomfortable terrified ones, as he rubbed his body against her.
That poor little kid (probably around the age of 10) … when her family should be telling her that NO MAN can touch her if she doesn’t want it, that men in higher social positions are NOT allowed to touch you and that you should not be ashamed of how you feel (all the things I obviously didn’t learn).
I wanted to rush in there and yell at her parents to protect her … but I followed society’s lovely code and stood back too.
Can I say something? I’ve tried with his wife before, she half heartedly attempts to stop him groping me … but as far as I can see she either doesn’t see how bad he is or has no wish to upset their relationship. I can contact him directly – and I wonder if having one of his victims stand up to him might wake him up?
Or do I butt out? This is not my family, that little girl is not my responsibility? the slimy man will never change?
You are letting him take advantage of the fact that women are socialized to always be nice and not make waves or create conflict. The next time he gropes you, whether or not it’s in front of his wife and kids, tell him very calmly and firmly that you do not want him to touch you like that ever again. If every time you saw him, he riffled through your wallet and pulled out some cash, would you not make a fuss because he happened to do it in front of family members?
With regard to the child, yes, you should have said something. “Phoebe seems uncomfortable with being hugged. You should let her go.” Then, speak privately with one of her parents about your experiences with the groper.
First, let’s remember where we are: this is an internet message board, and not a panel of experts. You’re just as likely to get bad advice here as good advice; maybe more likely. So my first recommendation* is that, after you read the responses here, you find some people with some real qualifications to help you decide how to act on this. Your county’s social services division might be a good place to start, as might your church.
Second, I agree with your gut feeling that this jerk’s behavior is entirely inappropriate. I also suspect that the family, being the enablers that they are, might resent any corrective action that you might dare to take, and try to deny that any harm is being done. Even the little girl may well feel pressured to not make waves, and resent any amount of turmoil being raised on her behalf. So you could well be on your own, even ostracized from the family. You’d have to prepare yourself for this possibility.
One more random point: when you’re faced with a scenario that demands more courage than you normally have in you, such as when fending off unwanted groping, you may benefit greatly from a little play-acting. Here’s how that would look:
Tell yourself that the next time the jerk does A, then I will do B. If he then does C, then I will do D, but if he does E, then I will do F. If the family does G, then I will do H. Write down your lines. Rehearse them until you can summon them at will, with complete conviction.
Wishing you luck. You’re to be admired for wanting to break this cycle of abuse.
This is what stood out to me in your OP. IMO this is a TERRIBLY wrong idea. It is far more likely that the presence of others has reined in his bad behavior to some extent. Without witnesses, he might do far worse. You should never, ever allow yourself to be alone with him.
I agree with the other posters. You need to publicly and loudly tell this guy to stop. If your friend doesn’t support you, she is not your friend. Period. In that case, get them out of your life.
I think you need to say something to him when he gropes you, whether his family are there or not. His wife seems to be trying to pretend it’s not happening, so I think you’ve got nothing much to lose by pointing out his incredibly inappropriate behaviour, every time. He will either stop doing it, or get Deeply Offended and never want to see you again. Win-Win situation, looks to me. And you are right to be upset by it, it is way out of line.
As to whether you standing up to him will wake him up, I’m sure he knows already. It might make him stop because he realises you might call the police on him, or otherwise make a fuss - but I’m quite sure he’s not accidentally groping you. And if by some chance it is accidental, you telling him, loudly, every time he does it, will help him by making him realise he’s behaving badly.
I don’t think you should beat yourself up over how you’ve reacted before, by the way. People like that pick on people they don’t think will complain - it’s not your fault, and you have clearly tried to fix the situation. If what you’ve tried hasn’t worked though, it might be time to try something else, something more direct and public. At the very least it lets everyone around you both know that something is happening, repeatedly, and will warn them to be on their guard.
If he won’t change his behaviour - and it sounds like he’s persuaded his wife to go along with it, at least - then at least you know you’ve done everything you can. And your example might help other people to realise they, too, can stand up to him.
You’re not going to stand up for the little girl because you can’t even stand up for yourself and because you have to ask about the right thing to do on an internet message board.
Is it possible that you have a form of asperger’s syndrome, synethesia, or something like that? A disproportionate number of message board users do and that kind of thing leads to different attitudes to touch
1a. Even if not, do you have some other hang ups for some other legitimate reason (please don’t actually answer either of these questions if they make you feel uncomfortable… it doesn’t matter what you write on the internet… it’s more something to think over in your own mind whether you do and you’re projecting them onto your niece… again this thread is for your benefit so don’t answer anything you’re uncomfortable with)
There are people out there with . . .boundary issues . . . and families that have learned to turn a blind eye to it (anything can be “normal” after enough time). It doesn’t have to mean someone is actively trying to rape you. It can just be that they get a mild sexual thrill from touching women/girls and they don’t police that behavior like they should. They may well not even realize that they do this, like a 3 year old who idly plays with his penis. He doesn’t even know he does it, but it’s still a habit that needs to be broken. The adult version of this is a man who hugs a little too long, and a with a little too much pressure from the pelvis, who sits a little too close on the couch and, when you scootch away, follows, keeping his thigh against yours, who looks a little too long at your boobs when you are talking. This isn’t common behavior, but it isn’t crazy rare, either–I’ve known half a dozen men like this in my life and some of them were otherwise perfectly nice guys. But those boundary issues made them hard to be around.
Again, it’s not just that they are more “touchy feely” than the average person. It’s that they are sending out strong signals of arousal/gratification and they don’t seem to know that they shouldn’t do that. That’s what creeps women out.
You’re kidding me. I’m absolutely floored by this reaction. The OP has been repeatedly groped, made extremely uncomfortable by this man, despite having been brave and spoken up and told people that she was uncomfortable - and for not knowing what to do despite these repeated boundary violations, you’re saying she’s either lying or over-sensitive, pretty much anything other than that this guy is out of line and to blame for his own behaviour.
Groping has a very clear definition. If this man has been groping the OP, for years, in front of his wife and she is completely unfazed by this, the most logical solution is that the OP is over-sensitive.
Yeah, but you can’t bear hug without rubbing your body on the person being hugged. By bear hug, I mean something like this. I see adults (especially relatives) do stuff like that all the time, and it’s never come across as especially weird.
I’ve known one or two overbearing, bully type men who carry on full affairs in front of their wives. The wife is under the bully’s thumb and doesn’t have enough clout in the relationship to stop it. Some people are just weird. (Notice I said “people” not “men” I’m no man-hater).
It’s difficult to say since we didn’t witness it. Our definition of bear hug might not jibe with hers, etc. I’d have to have more information before I’d venture to say if this was over the line or not.
What GilaB said. Next time he does it to you, stomp on his instep, knee him in the groin, and tell him in a loud voice to never do that again or you’ll do worse. Doing it in front of his family seems like a great idea to me.
