"You just need to speak up" isn't always helpful advice.

The BBQ Pit
1

Sorry this is a bit disconnected. It’s sort of layers on layers.

Over the past week, I’ve been struggling with feelings of shame and inadequacy over something stupid.[sup]1[/sup]

I’ve tried to talk to some people about how I feel. There have been two responses, both of which are unhelpful.

  1. "I call sneak bragging!" Yeah, I get it. I’m not a super conventionally attractive guy, and it’s pretty crazy that a lovely woman like this particular bride, someone who’s never been inappropriate with me in the past, would have been this way, especially at her own wedding. But can you imagine how uncomfortable this would be? And although we were invited because I’m the groom’s friend, the bride and my wife get along famously. It’s not a situation I’m interested in blowing up.

2)** People giving me advice.** I get it. You’re so calm and rational that when someone treats you in a way that’s uncomfortable, you can just take a deep breath and say something like “Please stop touching me.” I’m not. I’m socially awkward and anxious. To me, that feels confrontational and like making a scene.

I wish that the people who offer that kind of advice would stop and think, have a little empathy for the situation I found myself in instead of telling me how they totally would have rocked it.

[sup]1[/sup] At a wedding last weekend, the bride was way too comfortable with me. The night before the wedding, she was drunk. I spilled my drink on her, and she said, “Okay, just lick it off my toes.” I blushed and my wife spoke up, but the bride said, “It’s okay. I’m just so comfortable with you two that I went somewhere sexual right away.”

Then, during the wedding, she kept coming over and groping my arms and my back. It was super subtle, probably no one else noticed, but she kept doing it.

This is hard for me. I’ve been working a lot on becoming stronger over the past few years. I’ve gotten into strongman, powerlifting, and steel bending. It’s fun, and although I’m not losing weight, my body composition has changed and I’m finally kind of happy with what I see in my mirror. But boy, the unwanted attention has increased.

Now, imagine being a chubby guy trying to tell people “I’m uncomfortable because the bride was so into me that she kept flirting with me and groping me at her wedding.”

2

I would totally have rocked it.

Specifically, I would have rocked slightly forward to try and get away from her touching my back, and rocked to the side to get away from her touching my arm, all the while thinking that maybe if I retreated to the bathroom she might not follow me in.

3

Ha! I needed this. :slight_smile:

4

I’m sorry that your boundaries were violated. You didn’t do anything wrong.

5

… and if you did say “please don’t touch me” and the person keeps touching you what do you do then? Speak up again? Speak up louder?

People who violate boundaries often do not stop when told to.

It was entirely inappropriate. It’s just as wrong to touch a man who doesn’t want to be touched as to touch a woman who doesn’t want to be touched.

6

She probably thinks, ‘But it’s MY DAY!!!’

Well, whatever she thinks, I would make sure her husband, your friend, was always present if you spend any time at his place. In fact, how close are you as friends with this husband? Could you somehow arrange things that you could continue contact with him without her presence at all? Or are you couples all the way for everything?

Because if her behavior makes you uncomfortable, and she doesn’t stop when asked, you may have to physically distance yourself from this friendship. And yes, you will have to make your discomfort known to her if it happens again. Perhaps you were tactful not to speak up in front of all her guests at her wedding, but if she continues to treat you like this, say, “Please no, don’t do that. You may mean well, but it makes me uncomfortable.” But if she continues, you will have to adjust matters with your friend if they come as a package.

7

It’s almost worse when you do speak up and they don’t feel like they’re doing anything wrong and either defend their actions or throw a fit about it. In certain cases where what they’re doing wouldn’t be viewed as inappropriate by most people you’re the one that looks like the asshole.

My dad, for example, hates being touched. The way his office at work is set up, he doesn’t see people approaching him and often times to get his attention they’ll pat him on the back or [shudder] poke him in the ribs. I’ve seen him tear people a new asshole for doing that. I get it, from their point of view (and everyone looking on) all they did was give him a friendly pat on the back. From his point of view, he’s already told them multiple times not to do that because he doesn’t like it and now they just think it’s funny.
So, the question becomes, do you suck it up or do you say something knowing there’s a real chance they’ll do it on purpose because they know you don’t like it?

I’m the opposite. We had a guy that would stop in about once a week and had this odd habit of holding my elbow while he’d talk to me. It was bizarre and uncomfortable. I did finally say something, but I let it go for years.

8

Social anxieties are a bitch to deal with. But people are so different from person-to-person and as a whole, we don’t think we are violating someone else’s boundaries when doing something that wouldn’t violate our own boundaries. I fully agree there are many touchy-feely types who will think “the only way he or she will get over this is to get used to it”, but there are also many who will respect those boundaries, if they know.

9

If you complain, this kind of person is likely to tell people that you were the one pursuing her. I’d stay far away if I were you.

10

I thought she was drunk? I assumed that that was the reason for her behavior. More slipping inhibitions than sneaky cheater.

11

This was my impression. She’s never been inappropriate with me (or as far as I’m aware with anyone I know) before, even while drinking.

That’s also part of the complicated and awkward calculus that kept me from saying anything at the time.

12

Yeah, but she did it on 2 separate days, with several times on the wedding day. The 2 days she should have most been focused on somebody else. Sounds like she’s looking for trouble.

13

When I was young, 18-20, and worked in retail (at Toys R Us for crying out loud) I was in pretty good shape and on more than one occasion I had inebriated women blatantly hitting on me. Once I had a lady actually feel up my arms and comment on my muscles. I don’t consider myself conventionally attractive (especially now but not even then) and I don’t recount those experiences as bragging.

Women under the influence of alcohol lose inhibitions and will do things like this, so it’s not an indication that you’re a stud. It’s a situation where responding either positively (give me your number, or let’s find a secluded spot) or negatively (you’re making me uncomfortable, please don’t) can make it worse. The best course of action is to do your best to ignore it until it gets too out-of-hand. But the experience is still uncomfortable and doesn’t leave you feeling better about yourself.

14

I totally hear ya, O.P. I’m terrible at advocating for myself, plus, I rarely think of the right thing to say in time.

It takes me a while to process my own emotions, and often I don’t realize until a long time afterwards that a particular scenario bothered me.

All that combined means I rarely speak up when I should. I KNOW THIS telling me to do it doesn’t help!

15

I got over my social anxieties by marrying a woman with a completely different set of social anxieties; now we delegate uncomfortable tasks to each other. What I mean to say is, how about siccing your wife on her? Doesn’t make you less of a man.

16

I’m a single nerdy chap with Asperger’s Syndrome.
So I don’t do well with flirting. :confused:

Many years ago a work colleague got a promotion and invited a few of us to celebrate.
There was some drinking (I’m teetotal), then a beautiful female colleague started taking an interest in me.
I got gently touched and she put her head on my shoulder- all the while encouraging me to tell her anecdotes.
I felt both confused and flattered.

After a while the party ended with a toast and we all started to leave.
I asked the best friend of the beautiful colleague if said colleague was genuinely interested in me (seemed like a sensible check.)
She looked embarrassed and replied “Err, no - she was drunk.”

The incident was never mentioned again.

17

I hate being touched. I tell people “You do that again and I will call the cops and have you charged with assault.” If they do, I do.

As for giving advice, unless someone asks for it. don’t do it. As I say it “You never know what people have to deal with and what they have to deal with it.”

18

Did you tell her husband or did he observe her behavior? What was his reaction?

19

Neither.

20

Along these same lines, I used to keep my hair really, really short, just shy of totally shaved (could never pull the trigger on taking a razor to it), I’m quite sure I’m not the only guy with short hair/shaved head and a beard that would have people touching it. Didn’t happen regularly, but a few times a year I’d be standing in line somewhere and I’d feel someone rub the back of my head or…and I can’t stress how often it happens…this. Doesn’t bother me if it’s someone I know, it’s the random people doing it that’s bizarre.

Same goes for the apparently unwritten rule that you’re allowed to touch a woman’s belly if she’s pregnant. When my ex was pregnant, it was really strange how often she’d have that happen to her. My advice to her was to do it back. I’m assuming some random guy would be caught off guard if she went hand rubbed their stomach. The nice thing about this, IMO, is that they’d have no defense. I think they’d quickly realize A)how odd it is and B) they just did it to her and understand that ‘but you’re pregnant’ isn’t a good defense of that behavior.