I’m sure it goes without saying, but you before you walk into the dealer’s you should know the dealer’s ACTUAL cost of the car you’re buying, if it’s new, and the Blue Book (or equivalent) value of the car you’re trading in. In the old days this information (especially the dealer’s cost of a new car) was hard to get, but now it’s just a few clicks away.
–Mark
Well, the problem with walking in and refusing to talk trade-in until we’ve talked car is that this particular place doesn’t have the car I want, they’d have to transfer it in from one of their other dealerships a couple hundred miles away.
ETA - our overall plan is to sell the truck privately, get a “new” car for me from an ex-rental Hertz dealership which has by far the lowest price I’ve seen on the car I want, finance the difference, and then sell my car privately. This is all a huge pain in the ass, so I figured it couldn’t hurt to give a dealership a shot at coming close to that deal. As it is, what we know we could get for the truck if we’re patient is about 5K less than the Hertz cars. If they can’t come very close to that at the dealership, we’ll continue.
If you go car shopping, plan on having a whole day free to do it. If a salesman seems to be stalling, and if you feel into it, then deliberate waste as much of his time as you can. Hey, we talk about doing that with telemarketers all the time, don’t we? See how much of the salesman’s time you can waste before he gives up. According to several posts above, it won’t be too terribly long.
Sounds as if you have a perfect - on the level - plan. In this case you already have a clear set of options that you present to the dealer. It is a take it or leave it for them, not you.
In truth, this is often the easiest way to cut deals. In a previous life I was involved in buying very very large computer systems, but with university and grant money. There was no wiggle room for us. It was a matter of public record how much we had, and that made life much simpler. It got the the point where the salesdroids would say, “I guess since that is all the money you have, that will have to do.” (There were some pretty strange things that happened in the industry that made it worth the salesdroids doing this - but those days are long gone.)
A double act is useful in breaking down some sales tactics. If one of a pair wants the car, and the other partner is very resistant to the spending of any money (ie, “We have a perfectly good option from Hertz, what are we doing here? I want to go home.”) it makes the salesdroid’s job interesting. A pleading look from one partner to the salesdroid (“man, you’ve got to help me here, she isn’t going to let be buy this…”) can cut to the chase on realistic deals a lot faster than beating about the bush. (Negotiating from a position of weakness - when you don’t have the power to spend the money, the salesdroid will find it hard to pitch a deal that involves you spending it.) One friend of mine makes the perfect psuedo-wife to take along for such negotiations. A small crying child probably helps too.
Years ago I had Midas put “lifetime brake pads” on a car. When I needed new pads, I figured I’d drive in, get my pads installed, and go home. Heh.
The guy told me I needed exhaust work, and they’d give me a good deal since the car was on the hoist already anyway. I said no thanks. He explained that the exhaust issue made the car dangerous to drive, so *in good conscious he couldn’t let me drive the car home. *
I lost it. I screamed that if I didn’t have my car back and ready to drive in ten minutes I was calling the cops. And I never let up. I told every customer in the waiting area what Midas had tried to pull, calling them fucking shysters and thieves.
Turns out they were willing to give me back the car after all.
It’s not publicized, but there are little rooms at all the car dealerships where they lock up customers who are unwilling to deal.
Most times they’ll bring you coffee and a slop bucket, though. :dubious:
Did they change the pads? The more common variant of this story seems to be that they will replace the pads for free, but that you also need to turn/replace the rotors, bleed the brakes, change the brake fluid, re-lube the calipers, etc. and none of that extra work is covered by the lifetime pad warranty. The charge for all this work is less than the cost of the full brake job but ample enough to cover the cost of the pads.
Nope, I left and never returned. The pads sucked anyway, and shortly after my experience there were some lawsuits (mostly for bait and switch).
Also stalling can avoid a conflict; if it looks like the customer is getting seriously agitated you can just “find” the keys.
Whereas if you throw the keys on the roof it’s a big fuck you, and who knows if this apparently mild-mannered rube is going to go berserk? Yeah, used car dealers can prob handle themselves but why unnecessarily take that chance?
I can think of two reasons why it isn’t likely this would happen:
FWIW, salesmen who use bully tactics are probably not making their mortgage payments. The successful tricks of the trade are far more subtle than sitting on your trade-in, and it’s likely that you won’t even know that you’re being manipulated. The sales training I went through had this mantra:
“Nothing that you say to a customer should be random. Always be closing.”
The scripted sales routine was actually very effective and involved a lot of echoing and making sure you found out what the customer was looking for before showing a bunch of vehicles that he couldn’t afford or that didn’t suit his needs. This works whether you’re selling houses or bicycles. The light touch works far better than a bludgeon, and you don’t have to lie to people. I was averaging about $6,000-7,000 a month in commissions, while the “grinders” were living week to week.
The last two times I’ve bought a new car, the salespeople at several dealerships actually insisted on giving me a firm price before we even mentioned trade-ins, financing, paperwork fees or all that stuff. In fact, when I bought the second car, I started looking at different models, and the dealer made it clear every price they quoted was firm for each model.
There was still quibbling over my trade-in, but no one was trying to wear anyone down. I think internet shopping has a lot to do with it.
When I bought a new car a few months ago, they lost the keys, to the new car, after I’d signed the paperwork. They found them, but my salesman was freaking for about 5-10 minutes, as we were more or less ready to drive away.
But no, I’ve not had any issues. Even the one deal when I was shopping for my previous car where the dealership was being super shady…no problems getting my keys quickly to walk out of there when it became apparent they were trying to rip me off. (promised all sorts of good pricing, etc…and when the time came, basically offered me their financing, but refused to tell me the rate of the loan(!) and then wouldn’t actually quote me a price on the car for my own financing. I went down the street to another dealer (different brand) and told them what I wanted and what I wanted to pay and was out of there with a new car in two hours.
One time, I went to a Yamaha dealer and looked at an R6. I looked at the sticker price and asked how much they’d sell it for. The salesman started a spiel and I said, ‘No, I mean how much below the sticker price will you sell it for.’ He said, ‘That’s the price.’ I didn’t buy the bike.
A year later (in 2003) I went back to get tires for my XJ600. The shop was under new ownership by then. I saw a red 2002 R1 and I asked about it. All of the motorcycles in the shop were priced below MSRP. In the case of the new R1s, about $500 below MSRP. The 2002, being a year old, was $500 cheaper than that. The people ahead of me got it, but the dealer found another one for me. And here’s the kicker: Those were ‘out the door’ prices. The price on the tag included the price of the motorcycle, sales tax, license fee, dealer transportation, and set-up. So I wound up with an R1 instead of an R6.
Zsofia, I don’t know where you live, but I’m in LA–lots of dealers of all stripes.
At one point some years ago I was going to NY for a few months and it made sense to get rid of my car and buy a new one when I returned. I went around the regular dealers, figuring I could get something close to what I owed (about $6000 on a 2000 Mustang convertible). They offered me $1000-1500, which was frustrating, I knew the car was worth more and they could sell it for more than $6K. On a whim I went to one of those independent used car places, the kind I’d never ordinarily think to do business with. The guy offered me $5800. Cash. Right away. I probably could have gotten more, but I was so floored I just took the deal.
Now that I know a little more about how car sales work, I assume that the guys at the name brand dealerships weren’t really interested because the money they make depends on moving new cars, and will only give something like a fair value on a trade-in.
Anyway, if there are independent lots like that near you, it might be worth checking out.
If there’s a Carmax or other big used car dealer around, they should be able to give you a no-nonsense price for your used car. I got a quote from them when I sold a car, and it pretty much exactly matched the dealer wholesale prices I found at KBB or Edmunds. I eventually sold it to a private buyer for something like $1.5k more than the Carmax quote, but that also took a fair amount of time, effort, and money on my part.
I doubt the dealer trade in price, in isolation from any other associated new car purchase, will ever significantly beat the wholesale price.
I worked with a lady who at one time worked in a car dealer financing department.
She told me the manager regularly would “pitch” the keys up and down and they would finally end up on the roof by accident.
It was a delaying method to allow the sales person more time with you while someone got a ladder to get the keys.
That was at least 20 years ago and that manager hasn’t been in the car business for quite a while.
He was not very popular with the other car dealers, either. As far as they were concerned he took the car buying experience to a new low and loused up everyone’s reputation.
But yes, I have heard of it being done by that one manager.
Another tactic was to bury the customer’s car in a back row behind other vehicles and then claim they couldn’t find the keys to one of the cars blocking it in. That was related to me by other salesmen I worked with who had been selling cars for many years. Car sales has always been a crappy job, as you get the same commission regardless of what car you sell. At least with RVs (at my dealer), we got a percentage of the sale price.
they crushed Clark Griswald’s old car to make him buy the new one he didn’t want
car salesmen can’t be trusted
So I’ve been around and worked in car dealerships for more years than I care to remember. I’ve never seen this little room. Where is it?