Well that was a damned waste of my time. It took forever for “Bob” to deliver the prices (and we had no figures and nothing to test drive so I can’t see it as a delaying tactic) and I had to small talk with the very nice young lady for a damned hour. So now she knows all about what a c-section under general is like? And then they came back with a completely stupid offer and I explained that I could get that down to half operating solo. “You want this… Half?” “Yes.” And for fucks sake then there were arrows and squares and crap and finally I gave in by a grand just to get her to do something. Then that sales manager came out and did what Chefguy suggested he would do - get me to sign or get me to walk, and he offered literally nothing (an extra grand on the trade in but no budge on the car) so see ya.
I am not kidding. She actually wrote out on a paper “if we can get the car down to 12k and the trade in up to 7k she will discuss it with her husband” and had me sign it.
Was it a four square template?
When I was in sales, we were taught one mantra
“People like to buy, nobody likes to be sold”
I remember rather vividly the negotiations for my wedding photos.
In Bangkok.
the players?
Salon owner, only speaking Thai
Wife’s aunt - speaking Cantonese and Thai
Wife - speaking Cantonese and English
Me - the one with the money, speaking only only English.
Wife was the negotiator, I was just told what expression to wear - and yes, we got a very very good deal
Here’s more about the four square form from an under-cover reporter. It’s 15 years old now, so it would be interesting to know how much new-car sales has changed since then
It wasn’t a four square because I wasn’t talking financing. It was what I wanted on trade in and price diagonally from what she wanted on trade in and price. So:
7k 13.9K
5K 11K
So she’d do diagonal lines and say “well you are NOT getting this” about mine. And then she’d draw vertical lines and say “well you have got to give something up either here or here”.
I really hate it when they want you to sign or initial some bullshit piece of paper. This is supposed to make you think that you’re doing something binding, when it has zero legal standing whatsoever.
Man, long before I ever got married I “had to discuss” so many things with my “husband”. I don’t know how on earth people get out of things saving face on all sides without spouses, real or fictional!
And yes, that was so stupid I had to seriously staple my eyes down so they didn’t roll while I signed that thing.
Now THAT would have been a sight to see! :eek: 
The last two times I bought a new car I simply said I have no trade in. After I got the best deal I could, I then said I changed my mind and I do have a trade in. I knew what I wanted for it and what I was willing to bottom down to.
I am always willing to walk out the door and try someone else.
They just called me to ask if I had any questions and to let me know that if my circumstances change I should CERTAINLY return to Classic Ford.
Call them back and say, ‘If your circumstances change you should certainly call Zsofia.’
If you buy somewhere else and they call after that, tell them ‘You snost!’
Many years ago we cut a deal for a new car that included a trade-in amount that was higher than we’d expected. We assumed this was part of their sales tactics. Also they told us there was a manufacturer’s promotion coming up in three days that would give us another $500 off on the car. We signed the contract but stupidly didn’t notice that n one from the dealership signed.
When we came back to consummate the deal they told us they had made a mistake on the trade-in – rather than $5000 it was supposed to be $500. We told them exactly what we thought of their shenanigans and walked.
A month or two later the dealership closed.
To this day I believe that they were counting on us being so excited about the new car and telling people about it that we wouldn’t want to leave without it and would just fold.
We bought our last two cars used from CarMax. We got great cars at a fair price.
I had one like that. Honda (new car) dealership. I emailed back and forth with the sales guy for a few days and had everything all worked out. My car, the new car, the payment, the (lack of) down payment, everything. I just had to go in and sign the paperwork. I go in, he took some paper and wrote down “no down payment, $360/mo +tax, we make final payment on you car” and said “here just initial this and I’ll take it to the manager and start the paperwork”. He did that and came back and we talking while they were drawing up the paperwork and running my credit. After about 20 minutes he went to go check on it and came back and said “Oh, also there’s a $700 payment for [something]” at this point I thought he was just going to waive it, to show what an amazing salesman he is and so that he could nickle and dime me later and it wouldn’t seem like a big deal since he got rid of the $700, sales tactic I told myself, but in the same breath he said “which can’t be waived, do you want to cover that with a check or a credit card?”
I stopped him right there and said “you never said anything about $700 so you need to figure out how to get rid of that or we’re done”. He left, came back with the manger. He asked me what the issue was and I explained that we’ve been talking for a week (here’s all the emails, printed out), we had everything all worked out and now he’s surprising me with a $700 down payment, can you find a way to get rid of that?". When he said he couldn’t, I walked out, just put my pen down, grabbed my keys and left. They tried to tell me I had a contract, but I told them I hadn’t signed anything but some scratch paper.
Honestly…I figured they’d call me that night or the next day but they didn’t. The nice thing was, I went to the other Honda dealer in town, grabbed the first sales guy I saw and said, handed him all the emails and said something to the effect of “I was at [other dealership] looking at a Honda Accord EX-L for this much per month and them paying off mine, no down payment etc etc, but it fell apart when they surprised me with a down payment”, if you can clear this deal (no down payment) with the sales manager, I’ll be out of here really fast, I don’t even need to test drive it".
He did and I was.
Oh and the first dealership did call me back, about 6 months later. I think I was just in a stack of leads that they gave someone to call.
That reminds me. The finance guy made a point of telling me his “trick” he said that when the car has a few months left on the lease check the KBB Value, about 10% less then the Good amount on the trade in (that would make for $16k on mine) and compare it to the buy out on your car ($17901). According to him, if it’s worth more than you owe (and I see mine is), you’re in a good position to go to the dealership and ask them to buy the car back from you. In my case, I could ask them to give me $18k for mine, pay off my car and put the $2K down on a new car. He says he’s done this several times and it’s easier to ask them to buy a car back than asking them to pick up the last one or two payments or trying to deal with working out everything in the last weeks of a lease.
It made sense, whether or not it actually works, I don’t know.
Back when I was looking for a replacement car in 1996 I passed them the spare key I had made a few years previously, keeping the large jingly keychain of all my keys in hand and the sales idiot looked seriously grumpy. But then I was getting to be on my last nerve with that car hunt. It was the third day of looking and I was tired of the sales idiots always trying to talk with our roomie Bruce who went with me because I dislike being alone with strangers when I get stressed out. He kept trying to get the salesmen to talk to me - pointing out he wasn’t my husband, and I was the one buying.
My shortest interaction with a sales guy was when I went in to buy a new Wrangler. When I walked in the door, a young guy in a suit (I hate it when they wear suits) and slicked back hair was standing next to a new Grand Cherokee. The conversation went like this:
Sales: “Good morning! What will it take to have you drive home in this vehicle?” :rolleyes:
Me: “A better salesman than you are.”
I bought the Wrangler from the sales manager, and told him what I thought of that stupid old tactic. He just sighed and said “Well, he’s young and hasn’t found out what it’s like to be hungry yet.”
I worked as a salesman at a car dealership a few years ago. The dealership was part of a fairly large chain owned by the Van Tuyl family. As a matter of fact, it was sold to Warren Buffett last year.
When I was hired, they sent us to a week-long training program and the trainer, who was apparently a part of the management for the chain, told us stories about how things worked when he and Cecil Van Tuyl were young. Tossing the keys on the roof of the dealership were part of his recollections.
By the way, during the training, we learned how to do the “four-square” negotiation and we had a patter that we had to learn to persuade customers to come into the dealership before looking at the cars. That was to make sure we had phone numbers and email addresses for “follow-up” calls. More importantly, after gathering the information, it allowed the real sales managers to check your credit while the salesmen were “evaluating” your trade-in.
During the training, we learned that everything about the whole process of buying a car was planned. From the time you greeted a customer until the end when the salesman would put temporary plates on your new car was scripted from start to finish. And by everything, I mean everything.
I will bore you with a few more details. The four-square negotiation is not only a distraction, it is to make you think you are “signing” something that you can’t back off from. All real negotiation took place in the “Tower,” where the sales managers sit and which the customer never has actual contact unless you do something squirrelly that the sales team leader can’t deal with. Also, the salesman was expected to set up the customer for more sales in the “Finance and Insurance” department for “Lo-Jack” and a whole lot of other stuff. I am just scratching the surface here.
I have no idea if Berkshire-Hathaway is still running the business the same way. However, I do know that Van Tuyl still exists as a car dealership “consulting” business.
So, yes, apparently, car salesmen did toss keys on the roof of the dealership to keep you in the showroom. They just changed tactics.
I gave my keys to a salesman to test drive my car and when he came back in he took them and put them on a peg in his office. I immediately walked into his office, grabbed them and walked out.
I used to sell cars early 1990s I can tell you stories that will make your hair stand on end.