I’m girding my loins to do battle (meaning I’mma see what Classic Ford can do me on a trade-in, since my mom just bought a car there and first they offered her 7,500 for her Town Car and when she said no they offered 15,000, and while that means they are clearly assholes maybe they’re at least dumb assholes and I’m tired of waiting around for the right buyer for this truck so if they do any better than the current best offer they can have it). Anyway, so I was reading some advice on negotiating a trade-in and I read at two separate sites that you shouldn’t give them your keys because they might throw them on the roof “because you’re not leaving if it isn’t in a new car”.
What? Really? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard!?
Maybe in a day without cell phones where you couldn’t just call the cops because somebody stole your car?
And how on earth would anybody evaluate your trade in without the keys? The whole concept of this is so mind bogglingly stupid that it almost has to be true? Surely not in this day and age, but maybe back in the 70’s when car dealers had more awesome sportcoats?
The whole thing has me speaking only in questions, which is the opposite of Shatnering.
So has this ever actually happened? And people just… bought a car from these shysters? I’m not asking if it happens now, at least not at a regular dealership, but did it ever, and with any regularity? Did it happen to you?
I think the usual method is the salesman tells you “Give your keys to Bob, so he can inspect your trade in while we talk and he’ll come back with a number.” Of course, Bob disappears with your keys and is nowhere to be found until you either sign or the salesman decides he’s wasted enough of his time with you.
That’s so much easier than throwing them on the roof. They would then have to go searching for them when you finally agreed to close the deal.
There was no end of sleazy tactics back in the day, but I’m pretty sure that all states have enacted consumer protection laws that prevent the worst of it. Whatever websites the OP is reading are hopelessly dated.
I’ve always heard stories of the customer spending hours trying to leave and getting the run around of “they’re checking out the car” and then “they’re just taking looking for the keys” and finally “they can’t seem to find the keys, lets talk numbers, they’ll turn up”.
I’ve always thought to myself, as soon as I heard “they lost the keys” after I said that I want to leave everything would stop and the next thing out of my mouth would be “if I don’t have the keys in my hand in the next 2 minutes I’m calling the police and letting them sort it out”. I’m quite sure you’d have the keys very quickly. But then, that tactic is probably meant for someone with a little less, what, conviction than I have when it comes to those types of people.
I don’t know about the roof thing, but I’ve heard people related the “they lost the keys” story so the sales person can have some more time.
The roof just seems like a bad idea. A)When it is time to go, someone has to get a ladder out and fish them out of the gutter or off the roof and B)Do you really want a relationship with a company that’s going to treat you like that?
Well, none of them had anything useful anyway - “do your research” is a given, and I am eminently prepared to walk away.
Seriously, the offer doubled for my mom’s car. So a) they figured she was dumb enough to take the first one, b) somebody does take the first one, c) then their next offer is 15K? It isn’t my mom’s stellar negotiation skills. But I’m thinking it’s worth a shot just because I’mma drag her with me and she just bought a fancypants new car from them, so maybe that’ll mean something.
Plus I’m walking in with a teething baby who also has a diaper rash. Oh, you can’t find Bob? You sure about that?
I haven’t heard of car dealers literally throwing keys on the roof but they will use many less blatant delay tactics to keep you looking at an considering a new car. They will, quite reasonably ask for your car keys so their mechanic can evaluate its trade-in value. In the meantime, the salesman will be prodding you for what monthly payment you want. If you haven’t come to agreement with the salesman on a car’s price, the salesman will say the mechanic has to consult with his supervisor to determine whether it needs some repair or to approve a potential value. Meanwhile, the salesman offers you a Coke and says, “hey, how far apart are we on this price?” Or he offers to let you test drive another car “while we’re waiting for this slow mechanic.” If the salesman wants more time with you, suddenly, the mechanic’s supervisor will need to work on another customer’s car first. Then the will have to go on his lunch break. Then he will have to deal with a personal matter. Then your keys will go missing. The delays will seem reasonable until you are completely frustrated. All the while, the salesman will do what he can to placate you and continue negotiations. The salesman has all day and your frustration is just emotional weakness he can exploit.
If you near the breaking point, the the salesman will tell you that he got you a free car wash and vacuum for all your trouble. That will calm you down and get the salesman back on your side. But it will just take a few more minutes. He’ll ask again, what price would it take to get you in that car today? But then the lot attendant cleaning your car will go missing. And the vacuum will be broken so the attendant has to go across town to the dealer’s other lot to use that vacuum. This will continue for as long as the salesperson believes he is more likely to sell you a car the longer he delays you.
They haven’t stolen your car – you gave them access to it. In the meantime, they can continue to waste your drawing out the negotiations with the trade-in bullshit for perhaps longer than your will to resist holds out. The police will ignore your protests that the dealer stole your car. It’s purely a civil dispute. That means you can sue the dealer to resolve the problem. Naturally, the dealer will give you your car back long before you can file a suit. You’ll get it back by the close of business if you didn’t buy a car. Or, perhaps it they can’t find your keys, they’ll offer to let you go home in a car fresh off the lot if you just sign a little paperwork first. Crappy dealers manipulate you and break your will to resist.
When I sold cars, the used car manager would take the keys, and the customer, for a drive in their trade. It was an invaluable tool. After that, the customer was pretty well disarmed about the whole thing, and they got their keys back after the drive so they knew weren’t pulling any BS. I can honestly say I never lost a deal over trade value, because the customer had participated in valuing their trade.
Other methods as described in this thread are shady as hell.
And even so, why leave them with a spare set of keys, not that you need to be worried about them doing something with them, but why should I go out of my way to get a duplicate set made just so some dealer can be an asshole. If I was that worried I’d just go somewhere else.
I heard that they did throw keys on the roof, but they weren’t your keys. It was some other set of junk keys and you would just think it was your keys.
When a forklift crashes the windows on your car (“Vacation”), you know you can’t leave without buying the car. i would be very surprised if this ever happened-I’d be on the phone with the local PD immediately.
Never heard of it, and never had anything like that happen to me. I’ve gone in and not settled on a deal, and gone back and settled. That was in Detroit / Ann Arbor area, starting in 1980. What kinda crazy dealerships are these? No way in hell would I deal with anyone shoveling out that kind of crap.
I’ve been buying cars and trading in vehicles for 45 years and never had that sort of thing happen. Ever. Car sales commissions are based on volume and a salesman/dealer is not going to waste time playing these sorts of games. Competition is fierce among sales personnel; if you’re not moving merchandise quickly, you’re going to have a really crappy paycheck at the end of the month. Sales people are often taught a script and are told to stick to it as closely as possible without sounding like an automaton. At the RV dealership where I worked, if a salesman was spending too much time closing a deal, the sales manager would step in, particularly on a luxury model, and either do the closing or terminate the conversation.
If you’re truly worried about this sort of tactic happening, do not include your trade-in as part of the discussion. Worst case, tell them that yes, you are going to trade in your vehicle, but deflect any discussion of that vehicle until you reach a price on the new ride. Typical discussion:
“Are you bringing us a trade-in today?”
“Yes.”
“What kind of vehicle is it?”
“Do you want to talk about my present car or do you want to sell me a new car?”
“Well, of course we’d love to sell you one of our new models.”
“Then let’s talk about that, shall we?”
You are also free to request a different salesperson at any time or even ask to deal with the sales manager, who, believe me, will either close the deal or end the discussion very quickly.
Certainly one hears quite a bit about less than straight behaviour. The way it has been explained to me is that there is a truism in the trade that if a potential customer leaves the lot, there is pretty well no chance they will return. A sale is a one shot opportunity, and the sales-droids behave accordingly.
This isn’t always the case. Make it clear you are serious about purchasing, and from this company. Don’t take your car in for a trade-in appraisal on your first visit (just say the car you drove isn’t the car you will be trading - or that you already have a private buyer for the car - or you will be giving it to your kids etc). Where I am the conventional wisdom is that you will always get more for a car on a private sale, and that lack of a trade-in will actually open up other more clear discount mechanisms, since the trade-in doesn’t have to be bundled in.
Try to divorce the trade-in from negotiations at the start. The simple reality is that a good trade-in price is paid for somewhere. It is a zero-sum game. Be aware of where the money flows. This is different in different countries - but there are things to be aware and to beware of. Some examples are:
The difference in margin for the base car and the accessories. Base car here is abut 20% margin. Accessories are about 40%. Sales guys have a lot more room to move on accessories than they let on.
Finance packages. In some places the sales guy gets a personal kickback on the finance deal. Sometimes this is how they make any useful money, sometimes actually selling the car doesn’t make enough.
Margins can be so low that the main way money is made is via services. Tie in here is a way they may recoup profit.
In the end, it should be a sensible commercial deal. If a sales guy feels confident that you are serious, and will be back, and you are clued up enough to be quite clear about what it is you want, and how much you are prepared to pay, there is no reason is can’t be a sensible and cordial transaction. An adversarial view isn’t much fun on either side. Then again, a really good salesdroid will have you leave the the shop convinced you got a killer deal, no matter what you paid.
It’s never happened to me but I haven’t bought a lot of new cars and I wouldn’t put up with this crap. It’s never happened to my father who probably has your level of car buying experience, but he was a tough negotiator who would have recognized these tricks. He will never buy the car from the first dealer he meets . He negotiates a fair price then walks away knowing his baseline. Then he visits four or five other dealers looking for a better price. Then he continues to play them off each other until he gets a deal he knows the best deal. Then he decides if he actually wants to buy the car at the price. If a dealer claims they sold the car after that last, best offer (which has happened once or twice) he’ll either get another dealer to match the price or he’ll just start over again a few months later.
This crap has happened to my brother but he doesn’t tell the stories that way. He’ll talk about how the salesman was really great and friendly but the service department evaluating the trade took forever. The salesman made up for it though, by showing him every car on the lot including ones he was pretty sure he wasn’t interested in, and the salesman even bought him lunch. He is a terrible negotiator. The delaying strategy only works if the salesperson recognizes that keeping the buyer around increases the likelihood of a sale. It seems to work on my brother who always seems to pay more than he intended for a car that is nicer than he needed.
Taking the keys and refusing to return them until you buy a car (whether or not actually throwing them on any roof):
I’d be willing to bet that, wherever this happens, or ever happened in the past, that the following logic must apply:
[ol][li] IF they’re doing this to you, THEN they are doing this to lots of other customers too.[/li][li] IF they’re doing this to lots of customers, THEN some of those customers will call the police from time to time.[/li][li] IF the police are getting called from time to time AND the dealer/salesman continues to do this, THEN we must conclude that the police don’t do anything.[/li][li] In this case, the police probably will say it’s a civil matter not a criminal matter and they won’t get involved in that. (Just like they always do when the sleazy moving company won’t deliver your furniture.) This may or may not be true.[/li][li] Possibly (and I suspect likely) the police are part of the racket, and are getting some protection money from the dealer to go along with this.[/ol][/li]
In the badder oldder days when this kind of stuff was alleged to be more common, that was probably even more likely.