We opted to settle out of court. 
~Max
What the hell are you talking about? I wasnt doing either and i resent the FUCK out of your “have you stopped beating your wife” question.
I was simply saying there was no Mass Exodus.
Sure, like Eve left due to misogyny… or not according to Eve herself. Right here. In this very thread.
Give me a list of 100 posters who left and their posts saying they left due to misogyny.
Look there are good solid reasons to reign in transphobic posts and misogyny without making up a mass exodus. When things like that are done it weakens your case, not make it stronger.
…nobody is going to out anyone or share their PM’s with you to in order to prove a point.
So start modding misandry (against men, too) and attribution of malice to posters then, rather than ban ever more topics of debate.
I said posts, not PMs.
If the exodus was that massive, surely there is solid public evidence.
Look, there is no need to promote the idea of some sort of imaginary exodus, when simply being a civilized human being is all that is necessary.
And for the kind of posters that dont care about being civilized human beings, then claiming there is a exodus wont convince them either.
…I know what you said.
You are making an unreasonable assumption that 100 transgender posters leaving the boards would make a public post to announce they were leaving. There is no reason to make that assumption.
Did you notice when I left the boards for six months because of the way race was being treated by the moderators? Is there any public evidence of the way I was made to feel, or how long I was away from the boards?
You are making big assumptions here. I never shared that with anyone, because why would I do that? This place made me feel uncomfortable. So I left for a while. Then I came back. The way casual transphobia has been normalized on these boards has made me uncomfortable. If it continues rather than making a great big farewell post about it I’ll probably just drop out from the boards again. Would I be obliged to post about it in order for you to believe me that I left because of that?
Why do you think there would be public evidence? Why do you think that transgender posters who felt they were being harrassed or felt the moderators weren’t doing enough to protect them speak up?
The exodus wasn’t imaginary. Stop gaslighting.
These people aren’t what this thread is about. There is a reason we are discussing this in ATMB and not the pit.
I don’t care that you think the exoduses are imaginary. What matters is whether the mods have noticed the phenomenon, and care enough to do something about it.
That’s up to the mods. But the way I see it, the topic (or at least, the TERFy take on it) is a poisoned well at this point.
Posters saying they got PMs from women saying they left for that reason not good enough for you?
I wish I could find them myself, but I don’t remember enough about their exact contents to reliably retrieve them with the search function here. If you search for “transgender” and “Eve” and/or “Una” and look for long-ish threads dating to between 2000 and 2010, then you’ve as good a chance at turning them up as I have.
I see that most people haven’t responded directly to What_Exit when he solicited opinions, here,
Although you did seem to support one of the resolutions I listed here,
You seemed to take issue with the whole gender discrimination thing, so maybe you ought to clarify what you think the mods should do and what they should look out for.
And maybe collectively we should stop quibbling about whether or exactly why there is a problem or not, and start talking about what changes you would like to see.
~Max
A few questions,
- I see this as the status quo. No rule changes. Is that a fair assessment of your take on this - status quo?
- Are you saying mods should look at deliberate misgendering of non-members as jerkish/hate speech? Or would that only be misgendering of members?
- Do you think the moderators are presently overlooking some bad faith toward transgender members?
- What do you think about MrDibble’s main point that modding bad faith isn’t enough, post #152
~Max
I thought I made it clear - I think they should take your option 1.
Given the moderation they’ve already exercised around YWTF, it seems they’re already mostly there.
No, I don’t think that’s the case. I read that she was topic-banned because of prolific activity, not because of her viewpoint. What_Exit made a post about it in the locked thread, I think. 1000+ posts on the same topic.
~Max
With respect to rules, yes. With respect to their enforcement, not necessarily.
Deliberate and persistent misgendering of members is jerkish and should be dealt with the same way as sexist or racist insults directed at posters. Deliberate and persistent misgendering of non-members is jerkish and should be dealt with the same way as sexist or racist insults directed at non-members.
Recently? I don’t know; I haven’t been able to keep up with the recent threads on this topic (including the one about Rowling and the one about whether transgender people were treated better in the past) due to the sheer volume of posts.
I refer you to my Borat example. Yes, many comments and questions made in good faith are shocking and offensive, but the intent was not to offend. Handling such comments too harshly in the first instance risks radicalizing the poster, whereas taking them patiently and at face value, however frustratingly repetitious that may be, at least has a better chance of effecting a positive attitude change. I know this because I have witnessed it several times here in the past, and have undergone it myself. (Well, to clarify, I don’t think I was ever one of those who posted distasteful questions and arguments, but they had certainly occurred to me or else seemed sensible to me at the time, and I benefited immeasurably from reading the responses.)
Oh, come on. If she’d posted 1000 non-hostile posts on snack foods in the Cafe, she would not be topic-banned.
And I don’t mean just her topic ban, I mean the thread closures and closer moderation of those recent threads, as well.
The Rowling mess had a much more hands-off approach in comparison, which is why it went as sour as it did.
This I definitely agree with.
This I don’t. Like I said, it’s not 2005 any more. People should know better, and if they don’t, they should just be dealt with with warnings. The burden of the work should not be on their victims. This comes up all the damn time over racism, it isn’t any different for trans issues.
I see. What about the case where a member genuinely denies the validity of transgender identities?
“I’ll call you whatever pronouns you wish, but…”
- “I don’t think you should play girls’ soccer.”
- “I support this legislation which will make it illegal for schools to let students use any bathroom except the one that matches their sex as assigned at birth”.
- “I don’t support the integration of transmen and transwomen into the military”.
- “I won’t accomodate your requests when it comes to uniforms.”
“Because I don’t believe transgender identities are valid”.
How should mods respond to that sort of thing? Because I thought these were the major problems, not mere misgendering.
~Max
The burden of the work should fall on all of us who know better.
I think your approach (warn or ban and move on) is fine for a forum that presents itself as a social or debating club. And I know, from your post above, that you think that’s what the SDMB has become. But that’s not what this site bills itself as, and it’s not how I personally view it. I’m still here largely for the “fighting ignorance” bit—always have been, always will be.