The topic Did We Treat Transgenderism Better in the Past?, was recently locked by @What_Exit because it went too off the rails according to him. I agree with his Topic Ban of YWTF as she has a history of bogging down these topics, but it just seems like the solution now is to have NO discussion of transgender issues and topics. Am I to expect this to be the norm in the future? That it’s a topic too divisive to even continue to allow on this board?
It’s possible to stop transphobes from derailing it without also silencing those of us who want to discuss topics that are personal to us.
I just want to say, if it’s not too much of a tangent, I am sorry for the vast mountain of bullshit transgender people have to wade through on this board. I hope we do find a way to respectfully navigate this issue.
That’s why I’m asking the mods to focus on the posters that cause it to go off track. It tends to be the same few posters every time. No need to close a topic because of it.
They seem to have made an effort in that direction. One specific poster has been directed not to post in any threads with a topic about transgenderism.
I don’t think that ruling means no transgender discussions. In fact, I’d say it’s looking up for having better discussions.
I do know I’m going to avoid any new ones that DemonTree starts, though. They’re now 0 for 2 on starting transgender threads that somehow end in dumpster fires.
That certainly isn’t the message I’m getting. As other posters have pointed out, a number of trans posters have left this board due to the animosity against us and the inaction of moderators to deal with the posters responsible. In this case it seems like it’s trying to stop a problem before it starts and I would like to know @What_Exit’s justification for closing the thread instead of just dealing with the bad actors.
You’re right, my apologies, I’m mixing up the closed one and your still-open-for-now “harmful scientific theories” one that also touched on trans issues in passing for some posts. My bad.
That one was deep into the weeds and many of the posts were from a poster that now has a topic ban, and wouldn’t be able to respond to any responses to her.
The topic ban strikes me as an ill considered, or perhaps ill advised decision. Regardless of where you stand on the subject, @YWTF specifically, but other posters that hold a similar P.O.V. have consistently brought cites to the discussion. In contrast, those who disagreed brought mostly anecdotes. Nothing that I’ve read on the subject by the topic banned poster has struck me as hateful or bigoted. All of it was worthy of consideration and thoughtful discussion. Yes, even if sometimes heated.
If the objective on this board remains about having an open and informed conversation, banning posters who share possibly controversial insight that is more than simply anecdotal, is probably not the most effective way to go about fighting ignorance.
This is a surprise to no one, but I am strong disagreement with the topic ban on @YWTF, especially given this board’s long tolerance of Dopers who are truly derpy, provocative, and unequivocally offensive. Nothing she said in that thread was incorrect, and it was all completely appropriate for Great Debates. If the mods felt like she was derailing the topic, they could have just told her stop derailing and get back on topic. This is how other thread derailings are handled. So this decision is 100% bullshit, in my opinion.
I mean, I could see if @YWTF has been out here spamming the board with one-note-johnny transgender threads, but she hasn’t. She’s only guilty of being skeptical of certain aspects of woke conventional wisdom regarding gender identity. Skepticism is supposed to be a hallmark of rational thought. @YWTF brought sources to back up all of her claims, which most folks in that thread didn’t feel compelled to do. But we’re supposed to believe she’s the poor debater? Bullshit! GD used to be the best forum on the SDMB. It used to be where a person could go to be exposed to all sides of a controversial topic. But it’s turning into another social media echo chamber–a place where dissenting voices aren’t allowed, even when they are respectful and well-sourced.
I am seriously contemplating whether I want to keep posting here.
Did you know in the last few months she made over a 1000 posts on this subject. That is a crazy high percentage of her total posts in that time also.
She needs a break. We did tell her to come back to us in a few weeks and appeal the decision. She has to learn how not to hijack threads on Transgenderism.
We didn’t decide this lightly. We spent too much of Sunday reviewing that thread and besides it being hopelessly off-topic, we found her to be the main cause and for a 4th time on the subject in a short period of time.
She is an excellent poster otherwise.
11 posts in thread, not sure if any were actually on topic.
33 in this thread, many or maybe most off topic.
Somehow in this thread too she turned it to Transgender debating.
1059 posts in this thread, where it was more on topic but this looks like obsession.
We have other Topic bans, this is not new. It doesn’t have to be permanent. Probably shouldn’t be.
I’m not sure what else I can say on this.
And of course she is more than welcome to post on any other subject. I’ve always thought she was an excellent poster, after not recognizing her new name. I honestly didn’t understand why this subject would draw someone in to be like an Astro-turfer, but was informed by my fellow mods, who she was and she just feels very passionate about the subject.
This^^. It’s exhausting just to read the same ludicrous anti-trans material over and over again even when one isn’t trans; when it’s actually personal, it must be soul-scarring.
As a counterpoint, YWTF’s posts have on occasion driven me to stop reading those threads, particularly where the line of discussion has strayed into “transwomen aren’t women” territory. I will concede that she doesn’t present many of the more toxic anti-trans positions we have seen on this board (some by now-banned posters, some by current posters) and has made many cogent points, but many of her posts have also gone well beyond “scepticism” and into strong personal emotive - and sometimes incredibly hurtful - language. And she has often derailed those threads to her own purposes.
So it’s all very well to talk about “dissenting voices”. But sometimes the reason those voices are dissenting is because they are unkind and even bullying. And the mods are left with the unpleasant choice of either moderating those voices - and being accused of promoting an “echo chamber” - or not doing so, and watching the targets of those voices being driven off instead.
The previous long running thread was a definite factor in our decision. Many of the same points and posts were being rehashed in the new thread. We do not want an echo chamber, but we also don’t want to have the same points over and over again.
It’s not being added as a thrice told tale, it’s not a forbidden topic.
But she and you, monstro, are both great posters and I hope you’ll stay.
As a counterpoint, YWTF’s posts have on occasion driven me to stop reading those threads, particularly where the line of discussion has strayed into “transwomen aren’t women” territory.
But this is a you problem, not a @YWTF problem. There are plenty of Dopers who disagree very much with @YWTF, but who still manage to engage her posts.
“Woman” is a sociopolitical label, which means it should be fair game for debate and discussion. If you think transwomen are women, that’s fine. But it is not axiomatic. It is not a scientific belief. It is something people can disagree with while still being supportive of trans rights. Progressives like myself have always been in a support of trans rights (protection in education, employment, health, housing, safety, etc.). But it’s only recently where “transwomen are women” has become the mantra we’re all expected to reflexively chant. This is super off-putting to me. When people seem to care more about a slogan than the logical implications of a slogan, I have a hard time listening to what they have to say. But I still try to listen.