Misgendering someone is very much off-limits (and I’ve never misgendered anyone.) Discussion about whether transgender athletes belong in women’s sports is gradually shifting more and more towards “It’s bigoted to say they don’t belong.”
ISTM that transgenderism is gradually becoming an issue where, on the Dope, there really is nothing one can debate. It’s either agree-or-out.
So - what are we allowed to say - without getting in trouble - that isn’t in line with the mainstream Dope consensus/viewpoint?
I don’t mean for this thread itself to turn into a debate - we have countless threads about that, and a few such threads, even ATMB threads, resulted in locking just days ago - but rather, asking, ATMB, what the message board itself policy is.
You are absolutely allowed, by the rules as Miller quoted, to say for example, that you believe transgender people are fundamentally immoral. Or say that you believe some percentage of allegedly transgender people are dishonest and are actually sexual predators (without misgendering specific individuals).
You would not be shielded from the consequences of such a statement, though, other than moderation of personal attacks outside the Pit. And that’s what it seems our resident transphobes want - to be able to make statements about transgender people without consequence.
No more than liberalism, progressivism or conservatism are evil ideologies.
I would understand it as a common set of beliefs on the subject, ie that everyone has an immutable gender identity and this is what makes them a man, woman, or something else, that people should be treated accordingly in every area of life without regard for aspects of biological sex, and various other things. A person can be transgender without having all of these beliefs, and plenty of cis people endorse them all.
To fight my ignorance? While I am very open and support people being who they want to be I can’t help getting confused about the mix of terms and would like to have a correct understanding.
A part of me always goes back to whether they were born with male or female parts, and yes I know some are born with both. It sometimes becomes a sticking point in my understanding.
But to your point, if I was really wanting to know more I am certain their are threads here that would help me fucking know more.
It isn’t allowed. For reasons that would take either decades of research into the history of the forum, or somehow knowing the individual psychological motivations of the staffers, they won’t just come out and say it’s not allowed, but there will always be a rationale found that disallows any disagreement with maximalist pro-trans positions, and if no existing rule can be invoked, it will just be the usual “this thread is getting out of hand” or “mod note -warning issued” with no elaboration as to what rule was broken.
Sometimes, mods will even bait people into disciplinary action by asking them questions about trans issues that can’t possibly be answered without breaking the rules.
“I don’t think gender care is medically necessary,” would absolutely be allowed on the board. I’m not sure what part of the quoted rules you think would ban that.
There’s a big difference between wanting to learn and needing to know where “the line” is. Someone legitimately asking questions isn’t going to come close to breaking a rule.
IIRC, I think arguing that trans people wanting to perform in womans girls sports and if that is fair- is still a legit topic. Myself- I dont care- have fun.
I don’t have time to respond in full in that thread at this time, but Miller is clearly engaging in good faith and I don’t think he’s trying to bait anyone into breaking the rules.
Posters baiting others into breaking that particular rule does happen, and I recently reported such a post, but I haven’t ever seen a mod do it.
Especially since there has been considerable debate about that in the trans community in my understanding. I’m not athletic and didn’t really play sports so I am not qualified to have an opinion.
Seriously, I really boils down to the ur-rule of not being a jerk.
We have posters here who are trans.
All of the explicit rules are about not saying such individuals are mentally ill (direct insult) or misgendering (another direct insult or assault on self). Not doing so to off board posters is similar, though not the same, in that you’re attacking their identity second hand.
Even in the Pit there’s rules against wishing harm to another poster, and denying a trans poster’s identity would go pretty far down that road as well.
Don’t be a jerk - it’s not that hard.
Many people looking for bright lines (in society, not just the board) are rules lawyers trying to maximize their ability to scream “I’m not touching you” in a socially acceptable manner.
Others, including several in this thread, are trying to figure out how to deal with changing attitudes where their old rules may no longer apply.
The first class are being jerks, the second are asking for help. And it’s generally pretty clear which are which. Sadly, there are at least some in the second category that are tarred with the brush of the first. But if they continue to operate in good faith then it generally becomes quite clear after a short while, both IRL and the board.
So TL;DR - Don’t be a jerk. Don’t try to find a way to BE a jerk and get away with it. And if you can’t be honest without being a jerk, avoid such conversations. Even in these quiet days of the board there’s tons of other discussions to be had, not to mention the rest of the internet!
