Do we need a new Rule on behavior in funeral threads?

Cafe Society
21

I got very upset at the threadshitters in Robert Altman’s funeral thread, but as a free speech absolutist I cannot advocate a guideline banning such behavior. I vote no.

However, egregious, mean-spirited critical posts in a thread full of people morning the death of an admired artist, politician, or other well-known person is the height of jerkish message board behavior. It’s as reprehensible as barging into a funeral and calling the corpse an asshole. If you hate the fucker so much, why are you wasting your bandwidth posting? If someone you hate dies and you’re hatred isn’t satisfied with their death, start a Pit thread and cuss them three ways to Sunday. But don’t barge in and say the person was a no-talent hack and then make repeated posts calling all of his grieving fans idiots.

22

I agree with Cheesesteak. Going by the description you’ve provided, I don’t see how such a thread would belong in CS in the first place.

The happy huggles threads go in MPSIMS.

ETA: I haven’t scanned the forums yet tonight, but in the past few days the majority of Imus threads were located outside Cafe Society. Just because a thread is about someone or something famous doesn’t automatically mean it belongs in the Cafe.

23

Another vote for “no”. As a matter of personal courtesy, I try to avoid posting anything negative about a person when his or her fans are in mourning. But I don’t feel there should be any rule like this - it’s essentially creating a policy saying we can discuss a subject but only one side is allowed to post their views - a very bad precedent. How is it different in principle from a rule saying, for example, that nobody in a discussion of abortions is allowed to say they don’t like Roe v Wade or nobody in a discussion of gun control is allowed to say they don’t like the Second Amendment?

24

A rule? Absolutely not.

My $.02: You want to post regarding the deceased’s inability to impress you? Start your own thread.

25

I vote no, but I wonder do the same rules apply to famous figures and people of respect like Kurt Vonnegut as opposed to trainwrecks like Anna Nicole?

Borderline, if a daredevil or the Crodile Hunter die from their own stupidity, do posters need to start a seperate thread to discuss how they died the way they lived?

Terrible example, at least as many people know him for his greatness as Tessio in the Godfather and many youngsters only know him from Conan and have no clue who Phillip Fish is.

Jim

26

Those were extreme examples just for general effect. The first example, though not my own opinion, might be an example of what someone could say and not have it be called a thread-shit. Certainly I am aware of Vigoda’s work in the Godfather, and the comment does not reflect my personal opinion of his talent. I would call a comment about Abe Vigoda drowning puppies a thread-shit and one which would be better made in the Pit. I didn’t mean those as realistic examples, just using them for hyperbolic effect as I didn’t want to seem mean-spirited. I also didn’t want to speak ill of someone who is recently deceased, such as Mr. Vonnegut. I used Abe Vigoda as an example because of the humor involved with him mistakenly being reported dead by People Magazine about a quarter-century ago.

I also don’t think a rule about funeral threads is necessary. People should be trusted to use their good judgment, at least when commenting on a funeral thread in Cafe Society. I agree the general guideline here should be “don’t be a jerk.”

27

I think egregious threadshitting should be subject to mod remark, if not an actual warning. So, to the extent that such behavior in a funeral thread is determined, by a mod, to be threadshitting, it should be knocked off. If that counts as “a rule for funeral threads,” then I vote yes.

28

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t threadshitting a violation of the “Don’t be a jerk.” rule? Certainly everyone’s going to have some negative aspects of their personality/life and depending upon the famous person in question these may or may not come up in a funeral thread. It really depends upon who they are and how they died.

Anna Nicole Smith, for example, was pretty much prime fodder for mockery, IMHO, because of the media circus that erupted as soon as she died. Suddenly, it seemed, there was nothing more important in the world than covering her death, at least if you were to judge by the amount of news coverage it got. Yes, it’s a tragedy, but come on, do we really need round the clock coverage of it, complete with interviews with everyone who’d ever come in contact with her? No. And the comments in the threads that I read were more a mockery of the coverage and those who sponged off of her, than bashes at her.

When Don Imus finally kacks it, any thread about him will have to deal with his current mess. People simply commenting about it shouldn’t be a problem, people saying that they “hope the bastard rots in hell” would be if the tone of the OP was respectful.

In one of the James Brown funeral threads, somebody mentioned that he was physically abusive to women at times, however, they didn’t get any flack for posting it, IIRC, since they merely stated it and didn’t hammer the point home.

29

Couldn’t the OP specify and/or define parameters of what s/he would like to see in the thread?
For example: “Alas, Vonnegut is no more. Join me in posting your appreciations here” versus “Dead Vonnegut: literary genius or over-rated hack?” Then if the discussion gets derailed, it’s easier to point to how, and the OP can object to off-topic posts.

30

I had not percieved a problem that needed addressing. If someone’s being a jerk they should get called on it.

31

No, because it is really obvious that the ‘funeral’ threads are always the first. This is why I did not post “I’ve never understood the appeal of reading run-on sentences from a cranky, rambling old man” in the Vonnegut thread.

32

I vote no. “RIP Gabriel Garcia Marquez” and “RIP Tom Arnold” will both fall under the Cafe Society rubric, but I can’t imagine a blanket set of rules that would be appropriate to both men.

33

I guess I’ve phrased my original statement awkwardly. It would certainly be a Guideline, not a rule. And I disagree that a ‘huggie’ thread belongs elsewhere. Cafe Society is a place to feel the loss of talent.

I think there’s a genuine difference between a thoughtful comment on a person’s life and a one-line negative that has no balance. The question of when is it thread-shitting and when is it appropriate is a fine line. I raise this issue in general because I’ve recently been feeling in a lose-lose situation: the decision in the past has been left to moderators, so there has been inconsistency (which bothers some.)

So, rather than simply voting yes/no on a rule, how about I refine the choices:

When is a negative comment in a death thread a form of thread-shitting, and when is it an appropriate commentary? Votes and comments on options, please:

(1) Leave the decision to Moderators, based on individual circumstances in individual cases. We accept that there will be some inconsistency.

(2) Leave the decision to the OP, who can say “This is a thread for mourning, not critique” or “This is a thread for retrospective of the life work.” Let the other people in the thread jump on the thread-shitters.

(3) Leave the decision to the OP, who can say “This is a thread for mourning, not critique” or “This is a thread for retrospective of the life work.” Mention such a thing in a Guideline, and then the Moderators will handle accordingly.

(4) Set up a Guideline that says that sniping in a mourning thread is rude.

(5) Do not make a distinction between types of threads. If someone wants to be critical in a thread devoted to mourning the loss of a creative talent, that’s fine. It’s not thread-shitting to make negative comments about the deceased.

(6) Other ______________________
Aside: I’m not in favor of more rules or guidelines than we need, but when the moderators are accused of inconsistency, I feel the need to raise the question of whether more defintion is needed.

Aside: We’re obviously talking about death of some creative person or celebrity. In a thread about “My mother died today,” insults to the deceased are clearly jerkish behavior. In a thread about the death of a politician… well, not in Cafe Society.

34

Doesn’t the main rule Do Not Be A Jerk cover this? Shitting in funeral threads is being a jerk.

35

(1) Leave the decision to Moderators, based on individual circumstances in individual cases. We accept that there will be some inconsistency.
This is what we have now, is that correct?

(2) Leave the decision to the OP, who can say “This is a thread for mourning, not critique” or “This is a thread for retrospective of the life work.” Let the other people in the thread jump on the thread-shitters.
This could lead to a Café thread derailing into the pit. That would stink.

(3) Leave the decision to the OP, who can say “This is a thread for mourning, not critique” or “This is a thread for retrospective of the life work.” Mention such a thing in a Guideline, and then the Moderators will handle accordingly.
If we need a guideline change, this might be the one. However does this imply we could have two threads going on lets say Woody Allen, one with critiques and praise about his life-style and his work and one devoted to just what a genius he is?

(4) Set up a Guideline that says that sniping in a mourning thread is rude.
Do we even need this? Well I guess it would just be a note that we can link to if someone pops in and appears to be out of context to the thread. I guess this would be helpful.

(5) Do not make a distinction between types of threads. If someone wants to be critical in a thread devoted to mourning the loss of a creative talent, that’s fine. It’s not thread-shitting to make negative comments about the deceased.
I think different public figures deserve different handling, but this is opinion driven and won’t work in reality. #3 looks like a better choice. I could see a thread for Pete Seeger where many praise him and mourn him and a few find genuine reasons to dislike him. I would personally have to refrain from negative comments about people like Anna Nicole and the Crocodile Hunter, despite wanting to make them.

(6) Other ______________________
No Ideas.

Jim

36

What about if the thread was about an artist who was dying but not yet dead, or feeling pretty sick but hadn’t been to the doctor yet, or living in a place where lots of accidents happen and may be dead tomorrow or Tuesday?

No.

37

Another “no” vote for yet another rule or guideline.

I vote for a combination of Option 1 and 2.

It’s hard to separate the work from the artist in most cases. None of us are personal friends of the deceased. However, if an OP really doesn’t want to hear any criticism, I guess they can make that clear. In that case, their post really boils down to, “I’m really sad that X died. Who else feels the same way?” This sounds like either something mundane and personal, or a poll, which means it belongs in either MPSIMS or IMHO.

38

It should be a rule that people who get upset at the slamming of the subject of their funeral thread have to grow up.

The SDMB is not a wake. It’s not a funeral. It’s a place where people react to events, and like it or not: some people like to make jokes when celebrities die.

No one would do it at the funeral parlor. No one would do it in a “my grandmother died” thread. But, they do it here, and it’s often funny.

If you get upset that people slammed “your” celebrity after his death, consider it part of the healing process.

39

I think the don’t be a jerk rule applies here. In each case DBAJ has to be applied in context with the thread. Behavior that is jerkish in CS is not in the Pit. Behavior the is funny in one thread might be trolling in another. Mods, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it. Posting an honest negative comment in a death announcement thread is not jerkish or trollish. Posting a negative comment to get a rise out of people is. It should be viewed on a case by case basis and no new rule is needed.

The most important thing about funeral threads is if the person is on my Death Pool list.

40

I find threadshitting very annoying, but this is an etiquette decision and not something the Mods should be involved in except in extreme cases.